Ethics and legalities of format shifting

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Forget all Kindles, Kobos, etc. recommendations.
All of these "brands" want to bind buyers to their bookshops through the built-in software.

Nope. You can sideload all your books to both Kindles and Kobos, no need to use the built-in store.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Nope. You can sideload all your books to both Kindles and Kobos, no need to use the built-in store.

And a good thing to as I discovered today that a book on Beethoven I wanted to read was $12US for me at Amazon, $23US at Kobo!

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Nope. You can sideload all your books to both Kindles and Kobos, no need to use the built-in store.

I've never managed to read or buy an azw3 or kfx (Kindle) book on a Kobo, or to get a (k) epub on a Kindle.
But I have no problem with my Likebook or Boox devices.
I don't even need a computer for that.
And the EInk Android tablets are also much better configurable to the requirements and I can also easily get all books where they are financially cheaper (Overdrive and other epub - including Kindle - lending libraries).

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

I've never managed to read or buy an azw3 or kfx (Kindle) book on a Kobo, or to get a (k) epub on a Kindle.
But I have no problem with my Likebook or Boox devices.
I don't even need a computer for that.
And the EInk Android tablets are also much better configurable to the requirements and I can also easily get all books where they are financially cheaper (Overdrive and other epub - including Kindle - lending libraries).

I read Kindle books on my Libra and Kobo or Google Play epubs on my Kindles all the time. Don't know why you haven't managed that. True, one needs a computer for this, but so what? I need a computer for many other things too.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by davidfor

And what is the problem with that? They both allow sideloading books.

And what is the advantage of sideloading compared to the direct purchase option.
With the latter I am independent of the computer.
And it is simply not possible to read a kfx book on a Kobo, or a kepub on a Kindle.
In some countries you need illegal and definitely violating the terms and conditions conversions and a computer for that.
My question to Kobo and Kindle advertisers: are they paid for advertising, or are they so simple-minded to fall for such simple business models.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I read Kindle books on my Libra and Kobo or Google Play epubs on my Kindles all the time. Don't know why you haven't managed that. True, one needs a computer for this, but so what? I need a computer for many other things too.

And of course you always have your computer with you.
Not me - I just need my smartphone to connect to the internet.

I read Kindle books on my Libra and Kobo or Google Play epubs on my Kindles all the time

And doing (legally) forbidden conversions in the process.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

And of course you always have your computer with you.

Most of the time, yes.

And doing (legally) forbidden conversions in the process.

Of course.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

My question to Kobo and Kindle advertisers: are they paid for advertising, or are they so simple-minded to fall for such simple business models.

Ad hominem slurs are the sign of a weak argument. You insultingly imply that anyone who disagrees with you must be either a paid stooge or mentally deficient. Speaking entirely for myself, the former is DEFINITELY not true, and none I know IRL would support the latter.

Where I live, NONE of the devices you so monotonously plug are readily available. This is what Pocketbook explicitly told me in a reply to an email I sent them inquiring about buying directly from them: "we don't sell to your country". The Chinese brands you mention don't ship here either. I could buy one of those devices, if I were were willing to pay more than twice what my Kobo Libra cost me, and end up with a device much less suited to my personal usage case. Doing THAT would be a choice indicative of mental deficiency on my part, I think.

Perhaps instead of resorting to demeaning slurs on the intelligence and/or ethics of those who disagree with you, you could accept the idea that different people can have different situations, different tastes and different needs, and that these differences can lead them to make choices that are different to yours.

[Sirtel]

Me, I have no interest whatsoever in reading my books in different apps. I have them all in Calibre anyway, for backup purposes, so conversion to a specific format takes just one additional click. And I send them to my chosen device in bulk, also with just one click. No fiddling around with different apps and their settings.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

AWhere I live, NONE of the devices you so monotonously plug are readily available. This is what Pocketbook explicitly told me in a reply to an email I sent them inquiring about buying directly from them: "we don't sell to your country". The Chinese brands you mention don't ship here either. I could buy one of those devices, if I were were willing to pay more than twice what my Kobo Libra cost me, and end up with a device much less suited to my personal usage case. Doing THAT would be a choice indicative of mental deficiency on my part, I think.

Perhaps instead of resorting to demeaning slurs on the intelligence and/or ethics of those who disagree with you, you could accept the idea that different people can have different situations, different tastes and different needs, and that these differences can lead them to make choices that are different to yours.

Well, I would rather pay more to buy a device than fall into a business model trap that is ultimately much more expensive or illegal to avoid higher costs.
And that's always the case.
I want to read books but not support the finances of a business.
And that is not a matter of opinion, but of reason.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Me, I have no interest whatsoever in reading my books in different apps. I have them all in Calibre anyway, for backup purposes, so conversion to a specific format takes just one additional click. And I send them to my chosen device in bulk, also with just one click. No fiddling around with different apps and their settings.

So at least violations of terms and conditions and (possibly) - in your case, certainly (Estonia) - against the law.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Well, I would rather pay more to buy a device than fall into a business model trap that is ultimately much more expensive or illegal to avoid higher costs.
And that's always the case.

Please explain. In what way am I trapped by owning a Kindle or a Kobo? I have owned them for 9 years. Haven't been trapped in any way.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Well, I would rather pay more to buy a device than fall into a business model trap that is ultimately much more expensive or illegal to avoid higher costs.
And that's always the case.
I want to read books but not support the finances of a business.
And that is not a matter of opinion, but of reason.

I note the complete lack of any apology for the demeaning personal insults you directed at those who disagree with you, so I'm disinclined to engage further, beyond a final restatement of a simple truth: Your choices may be the best ones for you, that does not make them automatically the best choices for everyone else in every possible circumstance.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Please explain. In what way am I trapped by owning a Kindle or a Kobo? I have owned them for 9 years. Haven't been trapped in any way.

It's very easy:
If you use a book you bought elsewhere on a Kindle, you are breaking the law - even if you read an Amazon book on your Kobo.
In another country it may just be a breach of terms and conditions - in the EU it is the former.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

I note the complete lack of any apology for the demeaning personal insults you directed at those who disagree with you, so I'm disinclined to engage further, beyond a final restatement of a simple truth: Your choices may be the best ones for you, that does not make them automatically the best choices for everyone else in every possible circumstance.

Well then prove otherwise.
Only if I don't read and buy the books I want will a Kindle or Kobo or whatever in total cost less than an EInk Android tablet.
However, you have to pay for the convenience of being tied to a shop or you act against regulations