Is piracy likely to harm ebook sales?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by ficbot

Yet both print and ebook prices are higher than ever.

Compared with what, ficbot? Books now, in the UK, are enormously cheaper now, in real terms, than they were when I was a teenager, 30 years ago.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

I'm wondering whether piracy is really the problem that publishers face.

It isn't. The problem, as you suggest, is competing demands on disposable income.

DRM is part of the problem, not the solution. Iit just adds one more cost to the production of ebooks and discourages sales.

[JaneFancher]

Surprisingly interesting thread!

Just a few thoughts from an author caught squarely in the middle of this amazing technological shift.

I have to say that piracy has never really troubled me. I want people to read my books, get excited, and be looking for the next one. Considering what a lousy job the publishers did of accomplishing that, I'll take readers any way I can get them. It's my job to write something good enough that the readers will want to keep me in business, not rip me off

Considering the lousy job most pirates are doing of formatting and editing their OCRs, I'm fairly confident that people who want to reread my books will come to me for the e-book, once they know it's legitimately available.

It takes time...lots of time...to create a good-looking ebook. Most pirates don't bother. Then again, most publishers aren't bothering, either, from what I've seen/heard.

Authors do care about how their books look. We care about ease of manipulation... Closed Circle's first books came out without ToCs. We're struggling now not only to get ToCs in but to make them easily negotiated, in as many formats as we can. In a book with five sections, each with as many as seventeen sub-chapters, this is a trick.

Since CJ, Lynn and I began the Closed Circle project last year, I have been overwhelmed by the support of our readers. They understand the economics...if they don't buy, we can't produce more. It's really very simple. Are we making a living off it? Not by a long shot. Yet. But we don't even have all our (currently pirated) backlist up. We maintain our optimism.

It would be nice....I guess...if the publishers would get smart and realize the value of their backlist in the ebook market, but with the exception of Baen, they're all out for the next Dead Tree bestseller. And if they do get onto the value of that backlist, I'm really afraid they'll find yet another way to screw the author who produced it in the first place.

I consider myself lucky. I own e-rights to all my back list and I've probably already made more on them than I'd ever have made on what a publisher would have given me, even tho their sales would be far larger. This doesn't mean I'm raking it in, not in any sense, it's just that backlist sold for, say, $2.00 a pop would mean I'd make a whole sixteen cents per sale by a publisher. It doesn't take many $5 copies directly sold to make up for that. But then I'm also having to make up for the sales the publisher(s) missed over the past twenty years of not making that backlist available.

(The person who talks so blithely about hundreds of thousands of copies being sold is sadly uninformed about the vast majority of the book market.)

Bottom line, I agree that going after the pirates is a phenomenal waste of publisher time and money.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Compared with what, ficbot? Books now, in the UK, are enormously cheaper now, in real terms, than they were when I was a teenager, 30 years ago.

ficbot is correct about prices. Publishers created this new paperback format that doesn't fit well on most shelves. it's taller and tinner and doesn't fit well in your hand. It was designed to allow publishers to have paperback books at a higher price. I don't buy into that. I've never bought one and never will. It's a sham. The problem is that when something is selling, the people who make it have to f**k it up by changing it in some way that's either not what we want and/or they have to raise the price. People were going to the movies, so the prices just went up. People bought CDs, so they had to raise the price. People buy food, so the prices go up and the quantity goes down. eBooks start selling better and now some of the publishers have to jerk us around even more with their crap. I think eBooks are in trouble. I for one would not recommend anyone get a reader just now.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by JaneFancher

Considering the lousy job most pirates are doing of formatting and editing their OCRs, I'm fairly confident that people who want to reread my books will come to me for the e-book, once they know it's legitimately available.

You could always tell them they are available. Most places you can download things from will have some way of adding a comment. Also, if you don't already, you should put details of where to buy them from or where to send donations to at the beginning and end of your ebooks so that people who want to can pay for them after they have read them for free can do so.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by JaneFancher

Considering what a lousy job the publishers did of accomplishing that, I'll take readers any way I can get them. It's my job to write something good enough that the readers will want to keep me in business, not rip me off

Giving away free PDF is going to get people to go take a run to the darknet to get copies that they can actually read on their readers. Even if the copy they get is so-so, I think they may go back for more. You need to give your free books away in real eBook formats.

And I was looking at the site and it's not easy to find what formats you support. You really need a revamp of the site and selection. If it's all PDF, then you'll tank. You'll be needing Mobipocket & ePub at the very least.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Giving away free PDF ...
You need to give your free books away in real eBook formats.

And I was looking at the site and it's not easy to find what formats you support. You really need a revamp of the site and selection. If it's all PDF, then you'll tank. You'll be needing Mobipocket & ePub at the very least.

On the main page of Closed Circle there is link named
Download and File Format Help
It will take you to http://www.closed-circle.net/WhereItsAt/?page_id=598

if you have fast download and/or want all 11 file formats, from which you can pick those that serve your favorite e-book-reading gizmos, choose “FULL”. That’s a zipfile of (usually) about 3-5 MB with .epub, .fb2, .lit, .lrf, mobi/generic (.prc), .pdb, .pdf, .pmlz, .rb, .rtf, .txt. If you’re concerned about space/download time, choose “MINI”, which gives you a roughly 1.5 to 2 megabyte file with mobi/generic (.prc), .epub and .pdf only. (Calibre can convert any of those 3 into all the other formats.)
(emphasis mine)

I wish other e-book distributors were so well informed ;-)

[kacir]

I recommend everybody to go to the Closed Circle site, page
http://www.closed-circle.net/WhereItsAt/?page_id=11
for a nice explanation about why there are no paper backlists.

Nowadays the IRS taxes anything in a warehouse, and taxes it annually, no matter if it’s been taxed before, so along with the rest of the industrial world, publishers suddenly want low stock, almost nothing in warehouse, and everything sitting in someone else’s hands. This means they print only what’s ...

There is much more, in very plain words, I just do not want to copy more than necessary to make you go and have a look.

[Dellaster]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

And I was looking at the site and it's not easy to find what formats you support. You really need a revamp of the site and selection. If it's all PDF, then you'll tank. You'll be needing Mobipocket & ePub at the very least.

Coincidentally I just bought one of her books from that site. The formats provided in the "full" $5 download: .epub, .prc, .pdf, .rtf, .txt, .lrf, .fb2, .lit, .pdb, .pmlz, .rb, and .tcr in a 10.6 MB zip file. Yes, all of them at once. Downside? Twenty-four hours to get the download before the link dies. Put 'em in a safe place.

I do agree that the web site should be clear about what you get.

[BillSmithBooks]

While I really disagree with the nasty tone some of the comments have taken, I agree that no one is "forced" to be a pirate...the publishers have the exclusive right to publish those works (because the authors are suckers) and have chosen not to offer the products in a way that customers want.

BUT there is a whole other route to take:

Don't pirate the big publishers. IGNORE them. Publicly scold them in blogs and such -- "I'm not buying your products, I will not support you until you GET IT." Reach out to your favorite authors via their blogs and send them a private message to let them know as much -- let them know that they must pressure their publishers to change their business practices because it is directly costing them money.

In turn, it's time to make stars of the authors (mostly independent) who do get it. When you find someone you like, buy their books. Tell your friends. Promote their works on your blogs and Facebook posts, etc. -- tell your friends, "You have got to read this."

Turn the people who "get it" into the big stars of the publishing world.

If a few of these books hit best-seller lists and achieve high sales levels, the readers and authors have made their point and the industry cannot ignore those successes.

[DawnFalcon]

Buy em second hand and send the author a picture of the book w/receipt.

[Fat Abe]

Latest headline:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100401/...e_af/af_piracy

Ahoy, matey, I probably had some of you worried. No, the Navy did not capture any internet book pirates, but your days are numbered.

Returning to the program at hand, there seems to be no agreement on the subject of piracy, its economic or moral consequences. May I suggest a wild idea that could break the log jam? If you are moved by a book you either purchased or downloaded for free, why not send the author a contribution, using Paypal? It helps ease the conscience. Or, you could drop by your local parish to donate money to the poor or socially oppressed.

Some, it appears, are deeply concerned with piracy. I can read their angst coming through their words. Wasn't this thread started by an evangelist? What would God think of piracy? Would his angels deny you entry into heaven, if you violated copyright law? Shall we ask the lord for an Eleventh commandment, say, in honor of Sonny Bono? Thou shalt not read a pirated book or watch a bootleg movie, for it is a far greater sin than adultery, false worship, or avarice. Amen.

[tobarefeet]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Oh please! *ALL* of these views have been discussed to the point where the only rational response is to spew chunks!

Yes, most readers understand completely that anti-piracy efforts and money spent by the publishers would be better used to develop the vast backlists for the ebook market.

Yes, most customers realize that the major publishing houses have rocks-for-brains as their senior management.

Yes, most people have been fooled-once/fooled-twice by claims of same publishers re: ebooks.

Yes, any aspect of this subject truly is

Derek

Maybe to you because you have 20k posts. Those of us that are new to this site or just coming into the conversation may feel differently. I've never understood why in forums with many different conversations one may participate in there always has to be someone going on about the "dead horse" issue.
I think the topic header was a clue that if it's a subject you're bored with then skip the discussion.... no?

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by JaneFancher

Surprisingly interesting thread!

Just a few thoughts from an author caught squarely in the middle of this amazing technological shift.

I have to say that piracy has never really troubled me. I want people to read my books, get excited, and be looking for the next one. Considering what a lousy job the publishers did of accomplishing that, I'll take readers any way I can get them. It's my job to write something good enough that the readers will want to keep me in business, not rip me off

Considering the lousy job most pirates are doing of formatting and editing their OCRs, I'm fairly confident that people who want to reread my books will come to me for the e-book, once they know it's legitimately available.

It takes time...lots of time...to create a good-looking ebook. Most pirates don't bother. Then again, most publishers aren't bothering, either, from what I've seen/heard.

Authors do care about how their books look. We care about ease of manipulation... Closed Circle's first books came out without ToCs. We're struggling now not only to get ToCs in but to make them easily negotiated, in as many formats as we can. In a book with five sections, each with as many as seventeen sub-chapters, this is a trick.

Since CJ, Lynn and I began the Closed Circle project last year, I have been overwhelmed by the support of our readers. They understand the economics...if they don't buy, we can't produce more. It's really very simple. Are we making a living off it? Not by a long shot. Yet. But we don't even have all our (currently pirated) backlist up. We maintain our optimism.

It would be nice....I guess...if the publishers would get smart and realize the value of their backlist in the ebook market, but with the exception of Baen, they're all out for the next Dead Tree bestseller. And if they do get onto the value of that backlist, I'm really afraid they'll find yet another way to screw the author who produced it in the first place.

I consider myself lucky. I own e-rights to all my back list and I've probably already made more on them than I'd ever have made on what a publisher would have given me, even tho their sales would be far larger. This doesn't mean I'm raking it in, not in any sense, it's just that backlist sold for, say, $2.00 a pop would mean I'd make a whole sixteen cents per sale by a publisher. It doesn't take many $5 copies directly sold to make up for that. But then I'm also having to make up for the sales the publisher(s) missed over the past twenty years of not making that backlist available.

(The person who talks so blithely about hundreds of thousands of copies being sold is sadly uninformed about the vast majority of the book market.)

Bottom line, I agree that going after the pirates is a phenomenal waste of publisher time and money.

In all seriousness, have you considered checking to see if there is any e-book building talent in your fan base? Would they do some work for acknowledgement.

Remember, backlist piracy is done by fans of the works....

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by tobarefeet

Maybe to you because you have 20k posts. Those of us that are new to this site or just coming into the conversation may feel differently. I've never understood why in forums with many different conversations one may participate in there always has to be someone going on about the "dead horse" issue.
I think the topic header was a clue that if it's a subject you're bored with then skip the discussion.... no?

*When* I reach 20,000+ posts on MR, I'll grant your argument. As I've only got 2,700+ posts, I must, respectfully, disagree.

Derek