WHy TOLKIEN and LOTR is overrated!!!

hidari · 06-05-2009, 09:40 AM

This is worth posting just to get people angry for no reason. I could go into my own reasons for the BORING parts of LOTR but I will let a few of the links below help people to guide their way out of Middleearth:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-revi...rBy=addOneStar

http://coup-de-plume.blogspot.com/20...overrated.html

Yes, It will be fun to see Fantasy Freaks have a heart attack at anyone who would actually post an anti-LOTR thread. Fact is, I read the LOTR several times as well as other of Tolkien's works. I think he was a very interesting person. And, I loved to read him in my youth. BUT:

HELLO Character DEVELOPMENT

HELLO PACE

HELLO PEOPLE: THERE ARE OTHER BOOKS THAT HAVE BEEN WRITTEN.

I keep running into LOTR freaks that reming me of Deadheads, Ayn Rand Freaks or Harry Potterheads!!!! ( Still dont get that either. Another thread for that monstrosity!)

Enjoyed that tirade. Anyways. If anyone does NOT LIKE LOTR please post here. Hey It was a good series. BUT It aint Shakespeare!!!

HarryT · 06-05-2009, 09:53 AM

The point about it is that Professor Tolkien created an entire "world" with languages, a mythology, etc. That is something which nobody else has ever done - it is a staggering achievement. You really need to read "The Silmarillion" to appreciate the sheer scope of it all.

I am certainly not a "Fantasy Freak", but I am in awe of what Professor Tolkien achieved.

hidari · 06-05-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

The point about it is that Professor Tolkien created an entire "world" with languages, a mythology, etc. That is something which nobody else has ever done - it is a staggering achievement. You really need to read "The Silmarillion" to appreciate the sheer scope of it all.

I am certainly not a "Fantasy Freak", but I am in awe of what Professor Tolkien achieved.

Agreed Harry T. I am in awe of what Professor Tolkien achieved as well. In fact I love "The Silmarillian" three times and enjoy it more than LOTR in several ways.

I am just trying to pour a little water on the fire. I find the reviews of Tolkien to be too lopsided at times. That is all. And, as a reader of many types of Fiction as yourself: You can appreciate that there are many good writers out there. I just find it tiring when faced by a phalanx of LOTR maniacs.

bertold · 06-05-2009, 10:39 AM

I would have gladly taken part in a thread like this, but not when it's so blatantly trollish and juvenile. "freaks", "maniacs"? What are you, 8? Can't you make a point without insulting people you've never met who you're trying to have a discussion with? Don't even get me started on "The Silmarillian", which you've purportedly read three times. sigh

Alphapheemail · 06-05-2009, 10:44 AM

Nothing is perfect. You should make a list on the things you liked about it and the things ou didn't bc even though it seems that you're focusing on the little things that irritate you.
Could it be that you hate the fanboys more than the works?

I personally, hated the singing, BUT I LOVE LOTR!

pdurrant · 06-05-2009, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidari

http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-revi...rBy=addOneStar

My favourite of the one star reviews was this:

Quote:

really overrated, 4 May 2009
By Paul R. Farrington-Douglas "tishoumaren" (Prague, Czech Republic)

i read this book because all my freinds where saying how cool it was, but really it was rubbish!!! i mean i like fantasy but this book was so derivitive!!! not to mention wordy... i think people just think its 'a classic' because its really old and really long, but actually it stinks!!! If you want good fantasy try the Warhammer books, those have elves and dwarves and stuff in but at least there not boring!!!!

I can't decide whether he's deliberately parodying other one-star LOTR reviews or not.

desertgrandma · 06-05-2009, 11:08 AM

Hidari, LOTR isn't one of my favorite reads either, however, I'm not sure where your animosity is coming from.

The fact that others think it IS shouldn't bother you.

To each his own, live and let live.

Trashing others reading favorites only serves to inflame conversations.

Alphapheemail · 06-05-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Trashing others reading favorites only serves to inflame conversations.

I think that's all he wanted to do...

pdurrant · 06-05-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidari

http://coup-de-plume.blogspot.com/20...overrated.html

Also quite interesting. The funniest paragraph was

Quote:

And "thee", "thou", and "thither"? I'm shocked that stuff flew back in the fifties. No one talks like a real human being, not even the human beings! I am reminded much of Hawthorne's The Scarlet Letter. Remember how everyone, from the jilted husband, the adulterous wife, the preacher-dude, and the five-year-old girl all had the exact same speech patterns? Uneducated and silly hobbits should not speak the same way as old wizards or royalty. Mark Twain had it right; people don't all talk the same way, whether it be in dialect or just simply word choice. It's a lesson that Tolkien should have known himself. And to have just one person speak normally may have made the whole tale easier to digest, because then we would have someone to relate to, even in the slightest bit.

The uses of "thee" and "thou" are there precisely because they are not used in current English, to indicate a more intimate form of speech, in poetry & song, or formal/archaic speech. Hmmm... now I have an electronic copy.

Thee: 34 times.
Thou: 24 times.

Astonishing that he complains about there being no differences in speech patterns just after complaining about one difference that is obvious to anyone.

The only people who use Thee/Thou are:

Elves, in songs
Sam: in a song
The Ents: in a song
Gandalf: quoting Galadriel
Galadriel
Eowyn: In intimate speech to Theoden and later to Aragorn
Faramir: In describing his dream of Boromir's death
Halbarad: quoting Galadriel
Aragorn: quoting Isildur, and in intimate speech with Eowyn
The Nazgul King
Denethor: but only in his last hour.
Mouth of Sauron

This is what Tolkien had to say about them:

Quote:

In one or two places an attempt has been made to hint at these distinctions by an inconsistent use of thou. Since this pronoun is now unusual and archaic it is employed mainly to represent the use of ceremonious language; but a change from you to thou, thee is sometimes meant to show, there being no other means of doing this, a significant change from the deferential, or between men and women normal, forms to the familiar.

Goodness it's nice to have a searchable copy!

Alphapheemail · 06-05-2009, 11:34 AM

on that note... how many of the words in Shakespeare's books are part of the fossil record?... ::hmmm:

Moejoe · 06-05-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Also quite interesting. The funniest paragraph was

The uses of "thee" and "thou" are there precisely because they are not used in current English, to indicate a more intimate form of speech, in poetry & song, or formal/archaic speech. Hmmm... now I have an electronic copy.

Thee: 34 times.
Thou: 24 times.

Astonishing that he complains about there being no differences in speech patterns just after complaining about one difference that is obvious to anyone.

The only people who use Thee/Thou are:

Elves, in songs
Sam: in a song
The Ents: in a song
Gandalf: quoting Galadriel
Galadriel
Eowyn: In intimate speech to Theoden and later to Aragorn
Faramir: In describing his dream of Boromir's death
Halbarad: quoting Galadriel
Aragorn: quoting Isildur, and in intimate speech with Eowyn
The Nazgul King
Denethor: but only in his last hour.
Mouth of Sauron

This is what Tolkien had to say about them:

Goodness it's nice to have a searchable copy!

And for all that, 'Thee' is still used in some places in the North of England, although with a slightly different pronunciation.

What's up with thee, lad?

The 'ee' is pronounced the same as in 'jet'.

phenomshel · 06-05-2009, 12:59 PM

I see the same phenomena over and over again, whether it be LOTR, Harry Potter, or most recently, Twilight. Personally, the Twilight books didn't do much for me, and I haven't seen the movie. But every group I'm in online is seemingly obsessed with passing Twilight stationeries, tags, avatars, snippets of gossip about the next movie, etc. A few years ago it was the same with Johnny Depp craziness after Pirates of the Carribbean.
Does it get annoying? Sure, if you don't share the obsession. Is it worth arguing about? Definitely NOT!

astra · 06-06-2009, 08:56 AM

Trolls....

jinlo · 06-06-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astra

Trolls....

Orcs...

HarryT · 06-06-2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moejoe

And for all that, 'Thee' is still used in some places in the North of England, although with a slightly different pronunciation.

What's up with thee, lad?

The 'ee' is pronounced the same as in 'jet'.

Absolutely. "Thee" and "thou" are alive and well in the area in which I live.

06-05-2009, 09:40 AM	#1
hidari MR Drone Posts: 1,613 Karma: 15612282 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: DRONEZONE Device: PB360+, Huawei MP5, Libra H20	WHy TOLKIEN and LOTR are overrated!!! This is worth posting just to get people angry for no reason. I could go into my own reasons for the BORING parts of LOTR but I will let a few of the links below help people to guide their way out of Middleearth: http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-revi...rBy=addOneStar http://coup-de-plume.blogspot.com/20...overrated.html Yes, It will be fun to see Fantasy Freaks have a heart attack at anyone who would actually post an anti-LOTR thread. Fact is, I read the LOTR several times as well as other of Tolkien's works. I think he was a very interesting person. And, I loved to read him in my youth. BUT: HELLO Character DEVELOPMENT HELLO PACE HELLO PEOPLE: THERE ARE OTHER BOOKS THAT HAVE BEEN WRITTEN. I keep running into LOTR freaks that reming me of Deadheads, Ayn Rand Freaks or Harry Potterheads!!!! ( Still dont get that either. Another thread for that monstrosity!) Enjoyed that tirade. Anyways. If anyone does NOT LIKE LOTR please post here. Hey It was a good series. BUT It aint Shakespeare!!! Last edited by hidari; 06-05-2009 at 10:05 AM.

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06-05-2009, 09:53 AM	#2
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	The point about it is that Professor Tolkien created an entire "world" with languages, a mythology, etc. That is something which nobody else has ever done - it is a staggering achievement. You really need to read "The Silmarillion" to appreciate the sheer scope of it all. I am certainly not a "Fantasy Freak", but I am in awe of what Professor Tolkien achieved.

06-05-2009, 10:39 AM	#4
bertold Connoisseur Posts: 79 Karma: 2135 Join Date: Apr 2009 Device: iRex iLiad v2, Onyx Boox Note 3	I would have gladly taken part in a thread like this, but not when it's so blatantly trollish and juvenile. "freaks", "maniacs"? What are you, 8? Can't you make a point without insulting people you've never met who you're trying to have a discussion with? Don't even get me started on "The Silmarillian", which you've purportedly read three times. *sigh*

06-05-2009, 10:44 AM	#5
Alphapheemail .a ribbon around a bomb. Posts: 639 Karma: 4334 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: sigh... ny Device: PRS700	Nothing is perfect. You should make a list on the things you liked about it and the things ou didn't bc even though it seems that you're focusing on the little things that irritate you. Could it be that you hate the fanboys more than the works? I personally, hated the singing, BUT I LOVE LOTR!

06-05-2009, 11:08 AM	#7
desertgrandma Enjoying the show.... Posts: 14,270 Karma: 10462841 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Arizona Device: A K1, Kindle Paperwhite, an Ipod, IPad2, Iphone, an Ipad Mini & macAir	Hidari, LOTR isn't one of my favorite reads either, however, I'm not sure where your animosity is coming from. The fact that others think it IS shouldn't bother you. To each his own, live and let live. Trashing others reading favorites only serves to inflame conversations.

06-05-2009, 11:34 AM	#10
Alphapheemail .a ribbon around a bomb. Posts: 639 Karma: 4334 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: sigh... ny Device: PRS700	on that note... how many of the words in Shakespeare's books are part of the fossil record?... ::hmmm:

06-05-2009, 12:59 PM	#12
phenomshel ZCD BombShel Posts: 4,793 Karma: 8293322 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: The Frozen North (aka Illinois, USA) Device: iPad, STB Kindle Oasis	I see the same phenomena over and over again, whether it be LOTR, Harry Potter, or most recently, Twilight. Personally, the Twilight books didn't do much for me, and I haven't seen the movie. But every group I'm in online is seemingly obsessed with passing Twilight stationeries, tags, avatars, snippets of gossip about the next movie, etc. A few years ago it was the same with Johnny Depp craziness after Pirates of the Carribbean. Does it get annoying? Sure, if you don't share the obsession. Is it worth arguing about? Definitely NOT!

06-06-2009, 08:56 AM	#13
astra The Introvert Posts: 8,307 Karma: 1000077497 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: United Kingdom Device: Sony Reader PRS-650 & 505 & 500	Trolls....

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