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Old 08-07-2007, 06:31 PM   #16
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JSWolf: I spent a lot of time trying to find a copy in any form. I almost did once, but then it turned out to just be a click-through to "here are some places that might have your book." They didn't.


Jason: You're right in the regard that the market data likely isn't getting through. However, it seems that publishers don't want to create ebooks (because of piracy concerns) if paper books are still selling as usual. My hope is that by buying the used book, I'm indicating my willingness to pay for the content, but that I'm not supporting their current paper market in their ideal manner. I'd MUCH prefer to buy the more expensive, but nicely formatted lrf, since the other formats usually don't look as nice, even when passed through the tools we have available here.

The specific title isn't as important to me as getting across the idea that ALL books should be available in e-form, especially since the publishers already have them in some digital format already. My assertion is that I'm paying for the books I receive legally, but not in the way that the publishers want, and that's the message.
How is buying used telling the publisher anything? Would it not be better to email the publisher directly or call and say what it is you want?
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:33 PM   #17
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What I would do if there was a book I wanted in electronic form and there was not one would be to contact the publisher and tell the publisher that you want that title in electronic form and what format you want be it BBeB, Mobi, LIT. That way the publisher gets the point.
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:46 PM   #18
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You guys have made some good points, which is partly why I made my post in the first place. I'll have to think about if I should change my methods. Or at least add to them.
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Old 08-07-2007, 10:24 PM   #19
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You should change your methods. At the very least buy NEW books then you can maybe self-justify what you are doing better knowing you've actually given the author his/her share of a new book even if you don't read the dead tree copy.
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Old 08-08-2007, 05:33 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
You should change your methods. At the very least buy NEW books then you can maybe self-justify what you are doing better knowing you've actually given the author his/her share of a new book even if you don't read the dead tree copy.
Most book authors get an advance -- a flat sum of money and a promise of a royalty if the book earns income past that paid for in the advance payment. Most books never earn past the advance fee paid to the author. Thus the author is getting a one-time flat-fee payment. He will never see a royalty payment. In most cases this talk about giving the author a share is just smoke. Buying a used book, patronizing the library, or even (gasp!) downloading the book won't hurt the author any more than the publishing industry already has.

Last edited by mogui; 08-08-2007 at 05:36 AM.
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Old 08-08-2007, 06:40 AM   #21
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Most book authors get an advance -- a flat sum of money and a promise of a royalty if the book earns income past that paid for in the advance payment. Most books never earn past the advance fee paid to the author. Thus the author is getting a one-time flat-fee payment. He will never see a royalty payment.
That's the whole point. Most authors get an exceedingly small advance. If the initial print run doesn't sell through, the likelihood of additional printings or of selling the paperback rights go way down. If it does sell through, there is not only a better chance of selling paperback rights, but also a much better chance that the author's next book will get picked up at all. Publishers look at the business with a blind worship of the numbers. The better the numbers, the better the next deal will be.

I'm not talking about the seven-figure advances of the mega-sellers. Those are a completely different category, and the arcane mumbo jumbo that goes into calculating those deals is a horror story in itself. I'm talking about the midlist writers--the ones for whom every sale can make a difference. Those are the writers who are already getting a raw deal from the publisher. They don't need to get one from the readers as well.
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:26 AM   #22
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Heck, don't take it from me. Take it from Charlie Stross (as pointed out in another thread).

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog...#comment-10202

I've pointed to one particular comment, but read the whole page along with his responses to the comments. He's certainly not the enemy. He's all in favor of DRMless ebooks. He's also in favor of paying his bills.
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:59 AM   #23
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Very interesting! There are some good points in that blog (prev post).
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:42 PM   #24
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Based on the comments I've read or heard directly from mainstream publishers (and including comments in the blog), it's pretty clear that publishers are willing to talk about diving into the e-book waters, but that none of them will stick their necks out to be first on the diving board. Whether it's because of extra expense, lack of personnel, uncertainty about future sales, or uncertainty about formats, whatever, we cannot expect them to go out of their way and experiment with e-book sales solely for our benefit.

The independents (by virtue of the fact that they try harder) and much more likely to have their ear to the ground, and more likely to be willing to try new things, such as e-books sold in multiple e-formats, without DRM, etc. Unfortunately, the mainstream industry is paying little attention to the independents, and no one is accurately tracking industry-wide e-book sales, so again, the mainstream publishers have no information to go on.

If one of the e-book selling independents start to make it big, the mainstream publishers will have to take notice... at which point, they'll look at how the independent is selling e-books so successfully, and they'll see a tried-and-true method they can adopt. I expect that is how mainstream publishers will fully enter the e-book market, by adopting a proven-elsewhere e-book selling method and jumping on the bandwagon. If they do not, they risk the growing independents luring their popular authors away from them, thereby costing them revenue from their cash-cows.

So, Jason and everyone else, I'd like to suggest that, if you want e-books, spend more time with the independents, looking for e-titles to buy from them. Help the independents make it big... and in the process, vote with your dollars for the e-book selling method you prefer the most. That, I think, will speed up the acceptance of e-books into mainstream society faster than anything else.

(And for the record, I'm not encouraging this just to see my own sales go up... after all, I'm not a major e-book publisher, and no one's following my sales except me!)
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:10 PM   #25
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FYI, in the interest of supporting Charlie Stross' experiment in the blog (and because the book sounds interesting), I just tried to buy the e-book version of Atrocity Archives. Unfortunately, the site first tried to get me to buy both the LIT and PDF versions... then told me I didn't have MS Reader installed (I do) or activated (I do), and when I tried reactivating it, was told I needed a different browser...

That's the problem with the current e-book system, and DRM (not to mention Micro$oft)... too many hoops to jump through, and most of them you can't tell are aflame. This is what keeps e-books from being more widespread in the public eye, not cost.

Edit: I did manage to buy the e-book, after switching to another browser, and trying to download twice. Point is, I shouldn't have had to go through half the steps I did, not to mention switching to a Microsoft-approved browser, just to buy a book.

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Old 08-08-2007, 02:06 PM   #26
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What site was it that caused the problem?

I have an interesting problem. When I go to by a LIT format ebook, I can download it fine. Sometimes it reads and sometimes it says I cannot read it. But when I use CLIT on the LIT to remove the DRM, all is fine. So that means that my key for LIT files isn't broken. Oh well. At least once the DRM is gone, the LIT becomes readable/convertible.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:29 PM   #27
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Same here; My LIT format book (once I could actually buy and download it) worked fine on my PC's reader, but would not open on my PDA's reader until I used CLIT on it. Now it reads fine.

It seemed to be the WHSmith site that was causing the initial purchasing problem (I was using the Firefox browser as well, which obviously M$ doesn't want to have anything to do with). The site seems to be jumpy, and clearly with the wrong browser it cannot burrow into your PC and dig out the desired DRM data it wants before selling to you.

Like I said... too many hoops to jump through, just for the purpose of buying a book.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:54 PM   #28
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What I do is find the book(s) I want in LIT and then purchase them. Then I run MSIE and download the books, find they cannot be read, break the DRM, and I'm good to go.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:30 PM   #29
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Kinda sad on a lot of levels, isn't it?
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Old 08-08-2007, 04:16 PM   #30
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FYI, in the interest of supporting Charlie Stross' experiment in the blog (and because the book sounds interesting), I just tried to buy the e-book version of Atrocity Archives. Unfortunately, the site first tried to get me to buy both the LIT and PDF versions... then told me I didn't have MS Reader installed (I do) or activated (I do), and when I tried reactivating it, was told I needed a different browser...

That's the problem with the current e-book system, and DRM (not to mention Micro$oft)... too many hoops to jump through, and most of them you can't tell are aflame. This is what keeps e-books from being more widespread in the public eye, not cost.

Edit: I did manage to buy the e-book, after switching to another browser, and trying to download twice. Point is, I shouldn't have had to go through half the steps I did, not to mention switching to a Microsoft-approved browser, just to buy a book.
I used Firefox to purchase the book but not after changing the page with the IE plugin.
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