First ebook conversion

iroha · 08-09-2014, 04:50 AM

Hello, I am attempting to make my first ebook conversion of a fairly short book. (This is actually a group project, but I am looking into the ebook conversion side of things - it is written by us, so this is not a question about scanning). I am posting in this forum, because it looks like the best place for beginners to post, but please let me know if there is a better place to start.

Firstly, I’d like to check if my current aims seem reasonable. I am thinking of starting in HTML and getting that into ePub format through Calibre, and then converting the ePub version into Mobi through Kindle Preview. I have some basic knowledge of HTML and can certainly plug text into a template.

I have done some experimenting and produced a few test pages and a working chapter list. However, one problem I have is that I don’t find Calibre very user-friendly when I have several similar versions of the same book. I don’t seem to be able to save different versions with clearly different names. Then I find it difficult to find my latest version and delete earlier ones.
Perhaps it is not a good idea to edit within Calibre (?) Would it be normal to prepare my HTML elsewhere and then import into Calibre? So far, my experience with HTML has come from tinkering with webpages.

Sorry if I’m using the wrong terminology or I haven’t defined my questions clearly enough. I would be grateful for any advice. Thank you.

mrmikel · 08-09-2014, 07:21 AM

You might try asking some of these calibre questions in the Calibre forum.

When you note your experience with HTML is with webpages, that caught my attention. Epub is a subset of the HTML of webpages. It is more limited and some things don't work, such as name. Instead in epub, id is used. Lists work more or less, but start and type don't work. Working with tables may remind you of the sound of one hand clapping. I believe Pablo has a tutorial in the Wiki.

Also, it can be helpful to have a target device in mind, as not everything works equally well in every device. Early Apple devices aren't compatible with later ones, for instance. It is well to make sure the lion's share of your target audience's devices are covered.

You may find it best to work the Calibre editor rather than in the converter. The editor will generally not alter your html much, but the converter will alter it beyond recognition making it hard to edit afterwards with multiple calibre classes. You can also try Sigil, which has a more or less WYSISWG mode. But direct data entry into that mode will create coding which will offend the finicky, but which is less opaque than a calibre conversion. Don't get me wrong, calibre conversions work and it is a miracle they work so well. They just are hard to touch up afterwards.

A number of people work in Word and use the converter by Toxaris which is available on this forum. Others use Atlantis Word Processor or Jutoh which have word processor features but allow publishing of your document in epub or azw3.

I guess the take away is to not expect it to be terribly easy unless you are trying publish pretty close to plain text. It just takes time and no program to do everything for you.

Doitsu · 08-09-2014, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iroha

Firstly, I’d like to check if my current aims seem reasonable. I am thinking of starting in HTML and getting that into ePub format through Calibre, and then converting the ePub version into Mobi through Kindle Preview. I have some basic knowledge of HTML and can certainly plug text into a template.

If the original book was written with MS Word or LibreOffice, you may want to give Calibre's DOCX to EPUB conversion a try. Unlike other conversions, ePubs generated from DOCX files with Calibre are usually a good starting point for further processing, if the authors consistently used styles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iroha

I have is that I don’t find Calibre very user-friendly when I have several similar versions of the same book. I don’t seem to be able to save different versions with clearly different names.

Check out Sigil, which'll allow you to save different versions like any other app. It also features an integrated validator, which is almost as good as epubcheck.

It's also very easy to add the guide items required for Kindle books (cover, toc, text) via Sigil's Add Semantics context menu.
BTW, if you don't intend to publish the book via KDP, you can also generate an AZW3 book with Calibre to save space.
(Kindle Previewer generates a hybrid .mobi file that contains the old and new file formats and the source files.)

GMcG · 08-09-2014, 04:18 PM

For similar versions of your book you could change the title of the book in metadata like 1title, 2title, ....and then save them as epub. So you get different versions of your book and you can edit any of them in Calibre without deleting the former ones.

George

iroha · 08-11-2014, 07:53 AM

Thank you to everyone for your advice. There's a lot to digest, but I have definitely got some leads here.

mrmikel, I may have given the impression I am more competent than I actually am with HTML. But I will certainly explore the Wiki here. Re: formats I imagined epub and mobi would cover the bases fairly well and these are the ones offered at Project Gutenberg. Is that the wrong approach?

mrmikel and Doitsu, I will have a look at Sigil and see if I find that suits me any better. Good to try out different approaches, I think.

GMcG, thank you for your suggestion. I did try and change the metadata, but found it wasn't working as I imagined. Maybe I will try again, now I know that it should be possible.

HarryT · 08-11-2014, 09:16 AM

It's perhaps worth noting that the Calibre editor (which I personally find a lot easier to work with than Sigil) is a completely standalone tool that can be used independently of the library facilities of the product.

mrmikel · 08-11-2014, 10:39 AM

Some of the Project Gutenberg materials are one long file which will cause older readers to not open them and make new readers work more slowly. Generally, it is practical and helpful to make each chapter a separate file.

This can be easily done in either the Calibre editor and in Sigil. You might find Sigil easier to start with as it imposes its own layout and gives you a familiar environment to work in. It also has more developed facilities than the Calibre editor, though the editor is catching up fast.

Sigil has only one drawback and that is that it is only under very slow development and so any problems you encounter (which will be few) are not likely to be addressed.

You can find out general information about HTML and CSS at www.w3schools.com. They even have a try it out feature so you can alter the example text and see what the result is. It is more aimed at browsers, so there will be things that will work there, but not in ebooks. However, if you are just starting, you are not likely to notice them unless you try to edit pages copied from the web.

eschwartz · 08-11-2014, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmikel

[Sigil] also has more developed facilities than the Calibre editor, though the editor is catching up fast.

Really, what is calibre editor still missing? I thought pretty much everything had been covered by now, except for WYSINWYW editing which Kovid does not plan on ever caring about.

mrmikel · 08-11-2014, 09:11 PM

No clips yet. But much of it is just as useful as Sigil. The clips function is partially addressed by the inclusion of being able to surround any text with any tag, even having anchors, style info, etc.

The regex used by calibre doesn't do some things that Sigil regex does.

However the plugins and scripting language which are developing are exceedingly powerful and could take the editor way beyond Sigil.

eschwartz · 08-11-2014, 09:29 PM

I always forget the clips.

Dunno if that really counts as more developed, just differently developed. calibre has a few trick up its sleeve too.

Hitch · 08-13-2014, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I always forget the clips.

Dunno if that really counts as more developed, just differently developed. calibre has a few trick up its sleeve too.

Yup. CLIPS. As a NTPro addict, I am unable to live without clips. That's a deal-breaker for me. My addled old brains can't retain regex well enough to live w/o clips. ;-)

Hitch

mrmikel · 08-13-2014, 09:00 AM

You would also get a headache from the fact that the regex languages are slightly different.

I am waiting for when there is scripting for search and replace in the calibre editor.

Not that I will be able to figure it out but eventually somebody will post something majorly useful which can not be done any other way.

Hitch · 08-13-2014, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmikel

You would also get a headache from the fact that the regex languages are slightly different.

Which is why Regex Buddy lives on my computer. He is not often called out of his hole, but bygod he is there and waiting to confuddle me further. ;-)

Quote:

I am waiting for when there is scripting for search and replace in the calibre editor.

Not that I will be able to figure it out but eventually somebody will post something majorly useful which can not be done any other way.

I'm sure that they will.

Hitch

elibrarian · 08-13-2014, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Really, what is calibre editor still missing? I thought pretty much everything had been covered by now, except for WYSINWYW editing which Kovid does not plan on ever caring about.

Clips, as others have said.

Oh, and:

Editor-specific metadata-editor ("patches are welcome", Kovid says. For all I know, it might just be the allround Calibre metadata-editor called from the editor, but I can't seem to get my head around the python-stuff necessary to do it.)
Index-functions
Reports (one can see files and sizes in the Files Browser, but only for one at a time - not as an overview)

Just my 0.02 $ (or less)

Regards,

Kim

Hitch · 08-13-2014, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elibrarian

Clips, as others have said.

Oh, and:

Editor-specific metadata-editor ("patches are welcome", Kovid says. For all I know, it might just be the allround Calibre metadata-editor called from the editor, but I can't seem to get my head around the python-stuff necessary to do it.)
Index-functions
Reports (one can see files and sizes in the Files Browser, but only for one at a time - not as an overview)

Just my 0.02 $ (or less)

Regards,

Kim

Oh, yes, the reports--I almost forgot. I admit it: I use the Sigil reports a LOT. And the indexing is handy, too.

Hitch

08-09-2014, 04:50 AM	#1
iroha Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Aug 2014 Device: none	First ebook conversion Hello, I am attempting to make my first ebook conversion of a fairly short book. (This is actually a group project, but I am looking into the ebook conversion side of things - it is written by us, so this is not a question about scanning). I am posting in this forum, because it looks like the best place for beginners to post, but please let me know if there is a better place to start. Firstly, I’d like to check if my current aims seem reasonable. I am thinking of starting in HTML and getting that into ePub format through Calibre, and then converting the ePub version into Mobi through Kindle Preview. I have some basic knowledge of HTML and can certainly plug text into a template. I have done some experimenting and produced a few test pages and a working chapter list. However, one problem I have is that I don’t find Calibre very user-friendly when I have several similar versions of the same book. I don’t seem to be able to save different versions with clearly different names. Then I find it difficult to find my latest version and delete earlier ones. Perhaps it is not a good idea to edit within Calibre (?) Would it be normal to prepare my HTML elsewhere and then import into Calibre? So far, my experience with HTML has come from tinkering with webpages. Sorry if I’m using the wrong terminology or I haven’t defined my questions clearly enough. I would be grateful for any advice. Thank you.

08-13-2014, 09:00 AM	#12
mrmikel Color me gone Posts: 2,089 Karma: 1445295 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Oregon Coast Device: PRS-300	You would also get a headache from the fact that the regex languages are slightly different. I am waiting for when there is scripting for search and replace in the calibre editor. Not that I will be able to figure it out but eventually somebody will post something majorly useful which can not be done any other way. Last edited by mrmikel; 08-13-2014 at 10:07 AM.

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08-09-2014, 07:21 AM	#2
mrmikel Color me gone Posts: 2,089 Karma: 1445295 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Oregon Coast Device: PRS-300	You might try asking some of these calibre questions in the Calibre forum. When you note your experience with HTML is with webpages, that caught my attention. Epub is a subset of the HTML of webpages. It is more limited and some things don't work, such as name. Instead in epub, id is used. Lists work more or less, but start and type don't work. Working with tables may remind you of the sound of one hand clapping. I believe Pablo has a tutorial in the Wiki. Also, it can be helpful to have a target device in mind, as not everything works equally well in every device. Early Apple devices aren't compatible with later ones, for instance. It is well to make sure the lion's share of your target audience's devices are covered. You may find it best to work the Calibre editor rather than in the converter. The editor will generally not alter your html much, but the converter will alter it beyond recognition making it hard to edit afterwards with multiple calibre classes. You can also try Sigil, which has a more or less WYSISWG mode. But direct data entry into that mode will create coding which will offend the finicky, but which is less opaque than a calibre conversion. Don't get me wrong, calibre conversions work and it is a miracle they work so well. They just are hard to touch up afterwards. A number of people work in Word and use the converter by Toxaris which is available on this forum. Others use Atlantis Word Processor or Jutoh which have word processor features but allow publishing of your document in epub or azw3. I guess the take away is to not expect it to be terribly easy unless you are trying publish pretty close to plain text. It just takes time and no program to do everything for you.

08-09-2014, 04:18 PM	#4
GMcG Writer Posts: 101 Karma: 590630 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Device: none	For similar versions of your book you could change the title of the book in metadata like 1title, 2title, ....and then save them as epub. So you get different versions of your book and you can edit any of them in Calibre without deleting the former ones. George

08-11-2014, 07:53 AM	#5
iroha Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Aug 2014 Device: none	Thank you to everyone for your advice. There's a lot to digest, but I have definitely got some leads here. mrmikel, I may have given the impression I am more competent than I actually am with HTML. But I will certainly explore the Wiki here. Re: formats I imagined epub and mobi would cover the bases fairly well and these are the ones offered at Project Gutenberg. Is that the wrong approach? mrmikel and Doitsu, I will have a look at Sigil and see if I find that suits me any better. Good to try out different approaches, I think. GMcG, thank you for your suggestion. I did try and change the metadata, but found it wasn't working as I imagined. Maybe I will try again, now I know that it should be possible.

08-11-2014, 09:16 AM	#6
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	It's perhaps worth noting that the Calibre editor (which I personally find a lot easier to work with than Sigil) is a completely standalone tool that can be used independently of the library facilities of the product.

08-11-2014, 10:39 AM	#7
mrmikel Color me gone Posts: 2,089 Karma: 1445295 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Oregon Coast Device: PRS-300	Some of the Project Gutenberg materials are one long file which will cause older readers to not open them and make new readers work more slowly. Generally, it is practical and helpful to make each chapter a separate file. This can be easily done in either the Calibre editor and in Sigil. You might find Sigil easier to start with as it imposes its own layout and gives you a familiar environment to work in. It also has more developed facilities than the Calibre editor, though the editor is catching up fast. Sigil has only one drawback and that is that it is only under very slow development and so any problems you encounter (which will be few) are not likely to be addressed. You can find out general information about HTML and CSS at www.w3schools.com. They even have a try it out feature so you can alter the example text and see what the result is. It is more aimed at browsers, so there will be things that will work there, but not in ebooks. However, if you are just starting, you are not likely to notice them unless you try to edit pages copied from the web.

08-11-2014, 09:11 PM	#9
mrmikel Color me gone Posts: 2,089 Karma: 1445295 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Oregon Coast Device: PRS-300	No clips yet. But much of it is just as useful as Sigil. The clips function is partially addressed by the inclusion of being able to surround any text with any tag, even having anchors, style info, etc. The regex used by calibre doesn't do some things that Sigil regex does. However the plugins and scripting language which are developing are exceedingly powerful and could take the editor way beyond Sigil.

08-11-2014, 09:29 PM	#10
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,422 Karma: 85397180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	I always forget the clips. Dunno if that really counts as more developed, just differently developed. calibre has a few trick up its sleeve too.

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