SD Card on Oreo (Android 8)

[Amalthia]

Moderator Notice
Created a new thread.

Go to formats and folders ...

Hi, these steps don't work on Android Oreo. I've hit the select button for a folder on my SD card however the directory hasn't changed.

[chaley]

Originally Posted by Amalthia

Hi, these steps don't work on Android Oreo. I've hit the select button for a folder on my SD card however the directory hasn't changed.

I assume you followed the steps in this FAQ. It works for me on both the Google Android 8 emulator w/SD card and on my OnePlus 5.

If you formatted the SD card on a different device then CC probably won't have permissions to see the contents. The only way around that is to reformat the card in the device where it is being used.

However, rather than speculate, the best would be for you to send me a CC debug log as described here. That way I can see where it fails and whether you have one of the rather rare devices where Oreo broke accessing the private app folder.

It is worth noting that starting in Nougat (Android 7), Google has totally broken sharing files between apps. Later this year CC will be forced to hand copies of books to reader apps instead of pointing the reader app at CC's local copy. I know that this is terrible but there is zero I can do about it. If I don't implement this stupid system then later in the year I must stop releasing CC updates.

[crane3]

Originally Posted by chaley

...................
It is worth noting that starting in Oreo, Google has totally broken sharing files between apps. Later this year CC will be forced to hand copies of books to reader apps instead of pointing the reader app at CC's local copy. I know that this is terrible, but there is zero I can do about it. If I don't implement this stupid system then later in the year CC will disappear from the Play Store.

I hope that does not happen as that is the way IOS does things. Going the way of crapple is not the way for user friendly usability. Also one will have to watch their loss of space on the tablet as it will be many dups if the reader app's copy is not deleted after read.

The ipad is just a terminal to icloud to make more money for crapple.

[chaley]

Originally Posted by crane3

I hope that does not happen as that is the way IOS does things.

It has already happened. Google's change is why CC does not "target" (implement/respect the rules of) Android releases beyond 6 (Marshmallow).

As I said above, unfortunately starting later this year Google is requiring that new and updated apps target the latest Android. The result: either I stop maintaining CC, or I follow the rules and pass copies of books to apps.

If you care, Google's announcement is here.

[crane3]

Originally Posted by chaley

It has already happened. Google's change is why CC does not "target" (implement/respect the rules of) Android releases beyond 6 (Marshmallow).

As I said above, unfortunately starting later this year Google is requiring that new and updated apps target the latest Android. The result: either I stop maintaining CC, or I follow the rules and pass copies of books to apps.

If you care, Google's announcement is here.

Thanks much for the info. I was going to get the galaxy tab s4 when it is released but now am thinking about either the s3 or s2. Wonder if CC will be charged for overusing resources (generating extra copies of books) or will the reader be charged for overusing resources.

The extra "securities" will degrade performance rather than an improvement. I have a copy of the ios 11 epub manual & ireader sees it as readable IF it is located on a hi level directory; if moved to a folder, ios says it does not understand the format & one has to send a copy to an app (reader) for load/read.

Wonder if windows tablets will go the ios way also. or perhaps CC can hopefully be ported over to a "linux tablet" if necessary .....

[DoctorOhh]

Originally Posted by crane3

Thanks much for the info. I was going to get the galaxy tab s4 when it is released but now am thinking about either the s3 or s2.

I'm curious, how does Google's change alter your thinking on what to buy?

Originally Posted by crane3

Wonder if CC will be charged for overusing resources (generating extra copies of books) or will the reader be charged for overusing resources.

Color me ignorant, WTF are you talking about?

[crane3]

If Google goes the crapple's ios way, then there will not be file sharing; a reader app cannot select a book from a folder to read but must have its own copy/duplicate of the book. Each app is sandboxed(?) within its own environment. Android CC will have to do like IOS CC where CC will have to send a copy of the book to a reader app.....lots of duplicates to use up memory/ram.

Read the Oreo specs(?)/features that any app that over-uses resources will be removed. Will CC be penalized for over usage when creating multiple copies of books for various reader apps? or will the reader app? What constitute "over use of resources"?. The Galaxy Tab S4 will be released with Oreo which is headed to be more like IOS & should be avoided by me.

Then did come across an item that claims Google wants to head to cloud oriented tablets, like apple. The ios 'file manager', files is only for the icloud & is not allowed to display or manage anything on the ipad.

[DoctorOhh]

Originally Posted by crane3

If Google goes the crapple's ios way, then there will not be file sharing; a reader app cannot select a book from a folder to read but must have its own copy/duplicate of the book. Each app is sandboxed(?) within its own environment. Android CC will have to do like IOS CC where CC will have to send a copy of the book to a reader app.....lots of duplicates to use up memory/ram.

This part I understand. Slightly inconvenient and I would prefer it not be the case, but it just means adding one more step (or two) to my reading workflow. One would be deleting the book from my reader app when I finish reading it.

Originally Posted by crane3

Read the Oreo specs(?)/features that any app that over-uses resources will be removed. Will CC be penalized for over usage when creating multiple copies of books for various reader apps? or will the reader app? What constitute "over use of resources"?. The Galaxy Tab S4 will be released with Oreo which is headed to be more like IOS & should be avoided by me.

Thanks for the explanation. I am less confused now. While I don't know what will come down the pike, as it stands now simple book storage, even duplicates across apps, will not constitute an overuse of resources. Overuse of resources targets background resources like battery, memory, cpu, execution limits. Items that will affect the overall experience or hinder the currently running app.

[Dopedangel]

Personally I think chaley when calibre companion hits the point where he cant update without losing functionality due to google restrictions should abandon the app. And release calibre companion 2 with built in reader and editor for android 8 and above.

[Amalthia]

Originally Posted by chaley

I assume you followed the steps in this FAQ. It works for me on both the Google Android 8 emulator w/SD card and on my OnePlus 5.

If you formatted the SD card on a different device then CC probably won't have permissions to see the contents. The only way around that is to reformat the card in the device where it is being used.

I did follow the instructions. I am able to see my SD card as an option to select, however I cannot select any new folders regardless of where it's located. I am using a Samsung Galaxy S9+ unlocked phone. I haven't reformatted my SD card. I just got this phone and didn't realized I needed to reformat my SD card.

However, rather than speculate, the best would be for you to send me a CC debug log as described here. That way I can see where it fails and whether you have one of the rather rare devices where Oreo broke accessing the private app folder.

I've sent you the debug log.

Best Regards,
Amalthia

[chaley]

Thanks for the debug log. Unfortunately what it shows is the worst I could imagine. Oreo on your device is refusing to honor fixed file path names, instead insisting that the damned Storage Access Framework (SAF) be used. Not all devices require this (mine don't), but enough seem to do so that I can't ignore it.

The consequence: to fix this I must update CC to respect the Nougat+ SAF rules that file paths cannot be used internally in an app and cannot be passed to other (reader) apps. Instead, CC must use SAF mechanisms, which means that CC must pass copies of books to reader apps instead of the original file name. I knew that Google has said I would need to do this by the end of the year in order to be permitted to update CC, but apparently I must deal with it now.

I am currently testing the changes. They are significant enough that I will run an alpha test cycle then beta test. I need to be sure that I haven't broken anything on pre-Nougat Android, that it works on Nougat/Oreo and higher, and that it works with a range of reader apps.

Sigh ...

[Amalthia]

Well it's good to know the problem isn't something I'm doing, though I'm sorry to hear about all the work ahead of you on updating the app.

Thanks for looking into the problem.

[peaceridge]

Originally Posted by Dopedangel

Personally I think chaley when calibre companion hits the point where he cant update without losing functionality due to google restrictions should abandon the app. And release calibre companion 2 with built in reader and editor for android 8 and above.

I also think that there should be a cc2 for android 8, and maybe not update the current version anymore for those of us who will not be going to 8. I won't be updating my tablets to 8 to avoid the double storage of books. Unfortunately, my phone has already updated to 8, but I seldom read on it, so duplicate books would be ok for me there, but I suspect not for others. Also, what a burden on chaley to maintain 2 versions.

I disagree that cc should have a built in reader - just reading the forums of various readers show that we are all diverse in what we like on a reader app. Again, a tremendous burden on chaley. Including a reader in cc would get out of hand (I think). Case in point, I totally love Calibre and am so greatful for it, but with each update with more features, it loads and runs slower and slower.

[chaley]

Originally Posted by peaceridge

I also think that there should be a cc2 for android 8, and maybe not update the current version anymore for those of us who will not be going to 8. I won't be updating my tablets to 8 to avoid the double storage of books. Unfortunately, my phone has already updated to 8, but I seldom read on it, so duplicate books would be ok for me there, but I suspect not for others. Also, what a burden on chaley to maintain 2 versions.

Some points:

1. The "can't pass file names" problem exists with Android 7 as well.
2. I don't know how to handle the licensing problems that come with two distinct apps. Having an upgrade/exchange path or a single shared license seems hard.
3. As this thread has shown, there are problems with running the current CC on Android 8, and probably Android 7 as well. If this is solved with two apps then given the shared license problem, someone with two devices, one Android 7 or better and the other Android 6 or lower, would need to buy two copies. I consider this unacceptable.
4. The new version of CC will use the "pass file names" method on Android 6 and down.

Bottom line: I think I have two choices:

1. Follow Google's rules and live with making the copies on Android 7 and higher.
2. Abandon CC as it is, no more updates, probably making it free. At some point it will stop working. This will happen eventually as I get older and more cranky, but I think I have a few years left.

[Glsparks2]

I truly hope that you choose option 1. Please.