Troubleshooting Bookerly vs. Palatino: double comma

zamana · 08-16-2015, 10:42 AM

Hi!

After using Palatino exclusively since it appeared on Kindles, I tried to use the new kid on the block: Bookerly.

After some strangeness and accomodation, I started to like it, but, for my surprise, there is at least one problem with it.

Here is the same page of the same book "rendered" with Palatino and Bookerly on my Kindle Voyage with the latest and greatest firmware.

What those extra spaces are doing there?

Doitsu · 08-16-2015, 11:57 AM

This problem is most likely caused by the book and not the font. My guess is that the book designer inserted an invisible control character between the quotation marks and the text. For example, a thin space.

If you're really curious, add the book to Calibre, open it with the Calibre Editor, search for the sentence and position the cursor after the opening quotation mark. You should see LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK in the lower right corner of the status bar. Then press the right arrow key and check the status bar; it should display the name of the character immediately following the quotation mark.

zamana · 08-16-2015, 07:59 PM

Hi Doitsu!

Thanks for reply.

Well, I see nothing in the book's source that could induce this kind of effect.

To me it seems something related with the, if I can call it like this, "rendering engine" of the Kindle with this particular font.

Doitsu · 08-17-2015, 12:22 PM

I've downloaded a sample of your book from Amazon and wasn't able to reproduce the issue.

1. Did you get your book by any chance from a source other than Amazon?
2. Does the gap between the quotation mark and the following word disappear, if you significantly increase/decrease the font size so that the word is displayed in the previous or following line?

zamana · 08-17-2015, 02:52 PM

1) Yes, the book isn't from Amazon. The original book's source is in ePub format. In the Kindle is loaded the MOBI version, converted with Calibre.

2) No. The gap is the same, no matter how the font is resized.

Inspired by your arguments I converted the book to AZW3 and the effect does not occur. So, it's something related with the MOBI format.

But this is still curious, once that it only occurs with the Bookerly font.

I sent an email to Amazon reporting this issue and they replied, asking me to talk through phone or chat with a representative.

cvkemp · 08-17-2015, 03:11 PM

MOBI is really a dead format. Amazon owns it and has not made any updates to MOBI at all. It makes me mad that I have to send ebooks in MOBI format to my kindle. That just is not right.

zamana · 08-17-2015, 03:30 PM

The Amazon's representative was of no help. He asked me to reboot my device (which I did) and to resend the document (which I didn't, because I'm at work now).

He promised to send the question to the technical/development team.

cvkemp · 08-17-2015, 03:41 PM

I have to say the issue is in the old MOBI book format. I had a book that did the same thing. The book looks great in azw3 and also in EPUB on another device but in MOBI is really does look bad. MOBI is never going to improve. And I am hoping that amazon decides to let us seen to our devices in the new formats. A side loaded ebook in the correct formats look so much better than MOBI any day.

eschwartz · 08-17-2015, 10:39 PM

If you email a dual-MOBI (calibre can create these if you set the right option in Preferences ==> MOBI Output) then Amazon will accept it and deliver an AZW3 to devices that support AZW3.

barryem · 08-17-2015, 11:22 PM

I wonder if this is just a simple bug that'll be fixed in the next update. It seems likely since it only happens with mobi files and those are probably the ones they tested with least.

You've reported it so hopefully it'll get fixed. Nothing too tragic here, at least so far.

Barry

zamana · 08-18-2015, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

If you email a dual-MOBI (calibre can create these if you set the right option in Preferences ==> MOBI Output) then Amazon will accept it and deliver an AZW3 to devices that support AZW3.

Good to know.

Thanks!

08-16-2015, 10:42 AM	#1
zamana Zealot Posts: 127 Karma: 52836 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: São Paulo / Brazil Device: Kindles: Touch, PW1, Voyage	Bookerly vs. Palatino: double comma Hi! After using Palatino exclusively since it appeared on Kindles, I tried to use the new kid on the block: Bookerly. After some strangeness and accomodation, I started to like it, but, for my surprise, there is at least one problem with it. Here is the same page of the same book "rendered" with Palatino and Bookerly on my Kindle Voyage with the latest and greatest firmware. What those extra spaces are doing there? Attached Thumbnails

08-16-2015, 07:59 PM	#3
zamana Zealot Posts: 127 Karma: 52836 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: São Paulo / Brazil Device: Kindles: Touch, PW1, Voyage	Hi Doitsu! Thanks for reply. Well, I see nothing in the book's source that could induce this kind of effect. To me it seems something related with the, if I can call it like this, "rendering engine" of the Kindle with this particular font. Attached Thumbnails

08-17-2015, 12:22 PM	#4
Doitsu Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,583 Karma: 22735033 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Kindle PW2	I've downloaded a sample of your book from Amazon and wasn't able to reproduce the issue. 1. Did you get your book by any chance from a source other than Amazon? 2. Does the gap between the quotation mark and the following word disappear, if you significantly increase/decrease the font size so that the word is displayed in the previous or following line? Attached Thumbnails

08-17-2015, 03:30 PM	#7
zamana Zealot Posts: 127 Karma: 52836 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: São Paulo / Brazil Device: Kindles: Touch, PW1, Voyage	The Amazon's representative was of no help. He asked me to reboot my device (which I did) and to resend the document (which I didn't, because I'm at work now). He promised to send the question to the technical/development team. Last edited by zamana; 08-17-2015 at 03:37 PM.

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08-16-2015, 11:57 AM	#2
Doitsu Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,583 Karma: 22735033 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Kindle PW2	This problem is most likely caused by the book and not the font. My guess is that the book designer inserted an invisible control character between the quotation marks and the text. For example, a thin space. If you're really curious, add the book to Calibre, open it with the Calibre Editor, search for the sentence and position the cursor after the opening quotation mark. You should see LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK in the lower right corner of the status bar. Then press the right arrow key and check the status bar; it should display the name of the character immediately following the quotation mark.

08-17-2015, 02:52 PM	#5
zamana Zealot Posts: 127 Karma: 52836 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: São Paulo / Brazil Device: Kindles: Touch, PW1, Voyage	1) Yes, the book isn't from Amazon. The original book's source is in ePub format. In the Kindle is loaded the MOBI version, converted with Calibre. 2) No. The gap is the same, no matter how the font is resized. Inspired by your arguments I converted the book to AZW3 and the effect does not occur. So, it's something related with the MOBI format. But this is still curious, once that it only occurs with the Bookerly font. I sent an email to Amazon reporting this issue and they replied, asking me to talk through phone or chat with a representative.

08-17-2015, 03:11 PM	#6
cvkemp Loving life Posts: 1,412 Karma: 7991496 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hot Springs Village, Arkansas Device: PaperWhite 5,iPhone 13, IPad, MacBook Air	MOBI is really a dead format. Amazon owns it and has not made any updates to MOBI at all. It makes me mad that I have to send ebooks in MOBI format to my kindle. That just is not right.

08-17-2015, 03:41 PM	#8
cvkemp Loving life Posts: 1,412 Karma: 7991496 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hot Springs Village, Arkansas Device: PaperWhite 5,iPhone 13, IPad, MacBook Air	I have to say the issue is in the old MOBI book format. I had a book that did the same thing. The book looks great in azw3 and also in EPUB on another device but in MOBI is really does look bad. MOBI is never going to improve. And I am hoping that amazon decides to let us seen to our devices in the new formats. A side loaded ebook in the correct formats look so much better than MOBI any day.

08-17-2015, 10:39 PM	#9
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,422 Karma: 85397180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	If you email a dual-MOBI (calibre can create these if you set the right option in Preferences ==> MOBI Output) then Amazon will accept it and deliver an AZW3 to devices that support AZW3.

08-17-2015, 11:22 PM	#10
barryem Wizard Posts: 2,459 Karma: 68781975 Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Arkansas Device: Paperwhite 4	I wonder if this is just a simple bug that'll be fixed in the next update. It seems likely since it only happens with mobi files and those are probably the ones they tested with least. You've reported it so hopefully it'll get fixed. Nothing too tragic here, at least so far. Barry