Pirate Bay founders found guilty

[Jellby]

Whether Mr. Lundström is a neo-nazi or not is irrelevant to the legality or not of The Pirate Bay.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

He funded its "start up", but it is now an extremely profitable site, estimated to earn some $6m a year in revenues. Mr. Lundström is a businessman who does these things to make money, and uses that money for purposes that I personally find thoroughly distasteful. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lundstr%C3%B6m

You're absolutely entitled to your opinion; but how much money flowing through Hollywood ends up bankrolling organised crime?
Are you saying we shouldn't buy Hollywood DVDs?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Jellby

Whether Mr. Lundström is a neo-nazi or not is irrelevant to the legality or not of The Pirate Bay.

It is indeed, but I personally choose not to support companies who bankroll neo-Nazis. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of such things, of course. I am not qualified to judge the legality or otherwise of "The Pirate Bay", but a Swedish court has now done that for us.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It is indeed, but I personally choose not to support companies who bankroll neo-Nazis. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of such things, of course. I am not qualified to judge the legality or otherwise of "The Pirate Bay", but a Swedish court has now done that for us.

Was the case brought against Pirate Bay?
I thought it was against the four as individuals, and that Pirate Bay will just continue.

[HarryT]

You may very well be right, Sparrow. I'm sure that you know more about it than I do.

[Riocaz]

They have said it will.

I have to say that given the widely reported incompetence of the prosecution the verdict is somewhat of a surprise. But it's going to be appealed.

[EowynCarter]

I have kind of mixed fellings.

Obviously, they where playing with fire. No mater what they told, it's obvious TBP is there to help piracy.
Then the sum to pay seams a bit out or proportion. (Or maybe not). And, p2p DO have some legal uses.

[vivaldirules]

This is excellent news though long overdue.

[tirsales]

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

This is excellent news though long overdue.

Why?
(dont interprete this as a statement pro or contra pirate bay, just want to know your reasoning.
I personally dislike the "political" approach of condemning all kinds of P2P, TorrentTracking and stuff and acknowledge that it has (in all likelihood) been PirateBay (and consortes) who "forced" the media industrie to get - at least somewhat - more consumer friendly (e.g. providing non-drm'd music, still overpriced (but considerably cheaper then before) download shops, etc).
In addition I value the principles of "fair use" and the right to do private copies (though it does not exist in Germany any more) and I do hate powerful lobby groups (like e.g. publishing and media industrie).
Still - I dislike piracy and I honor the laws. I do not know the intentions or reasoning behind PirateBay - thus I cannot give a detailed opinion regarding this desciscion.
IF PirateBay was actively promoting illegal downloads (and if this is illegal in Sweden) the court may be right - I am not in a position to judge this.

But: I would find it utterly disgraceful if all TorrentTrackers (or stuff) got sued simply because you are able to find illegal links to them (that is true for nearly the whole Internet). There is currently a judging in Germany that says "If you link to a page, that links to page, that links to a page ... (say: if you start a link-chain) that leads to illegal content (e.g. illegal media, certain pornographic content, etc) you *are* responsible for this link chain, and thus can be sued - and this is outrageous (in fact: nearly every webpage would be suable..).

--edit:
Example: Following said logic, linking to Heise (a German publisher) would make you guilty of divulging child pornography (Heise links (in an article) to Wikileaks, Wikileaks hosts a list of censored websites from Australia. Said list was reason for a police raid at the owner of the German Wikileak domain on the accusation of hosting child pornography...)
(see http://www.heise.de/newsticker/Geric...meldung/135461 )

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You approve of the fact that revenue from "The Pirate Bay" funds some of the most unpleasant neo-Nazi groups in Europe?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02..._bay_neo_nazi/

One interesting similarity between Europe and the US is that you throw around the term "neo-nazi" in much the same way that some in the US use "socialist".

[tirsales]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

One interesting similarity between Europe and the US is that you throw around the term "neo-nazi" in much the same way that some in the US use "socialist".

Yes - a "Nazi" or "Neo Nazi" is someone "right wing" of yourself who does not share your own conviction. It is a discussion killer ...
Even more interesting: Simply stating "he is alleged of founding NeoNazis" is the same as stating "we have found proof that he is founding illegal NeoNazist groups". Oh well.
Disclaimer: I do not know Mr. Lundström, nor did I do any research concerning him. The threads or pages linked in this discussion were only stating "alleged of .." - never any proof
Disclaimer2: I am NOT a Neo Nazi (however written), I do NOT share their convictions and I have no affiliation whatsoever with those groups - nor do I want any. I simply believe in "in dubio pro reo"

[pagansoul]

Does this mean they will go after Limewire next? This is going to force the next generation of P2P to be created. Naspter --> Pirate Bay --> whatever. I think part of Pirate Bay's problem is their name.

I believe that soon everyone is going to keep a copy of their files in huge servers. Will they still be considered their files, will those files be policed? I myself have seen a boot print of Wolverine, it's not even in the movies yet. Will this stop me from see a finished print in the movies, no. Will this stop me from buying the finished DVD for my home collection, no. In my case there is no change but I can see that others will be happy with an unfinished product and might make some money selling it. Is this unfair to the owners, yes. Will they try to prevent this, yes. If they could they would close all the Pawn shops and Flea markets of the world. Every reseller would have to pay a tax to them. There would be no libraries. People couldn't leave their CDs/Records/DVDs/books....to their family. You would have to pay for the same works over and over again, forever. I believe that is their dream, but it's not going to happen.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by HarryT

He funded its "start up", but it is now an extremely profitable site, estimated to earn some $6m a year in revenues. Mr. Lundström is a businessman who does these things to make money, and uses that money for purposes that I personally find thoroughly distasteful. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lundstr%C3%B6m

That article is unreliable. All the sources have an obvious bias.

[Sporadic]

The topic needs to be fixed.

They haven't been jailed, they are planning to appeal until they can't appeal anymore and brokep said in a live streaming press conference that it will probably take four to five years before a final verdict is given.

A better thread title would be "Pirate Bay founders found guilty" or something of that nature.

[HarryT]

Please would you be kind enough to point out the factual inaccuracies, Nate? You claim that these articles are "biased", but you provide no details as to where their bias lies. Do you dispute the stated facts?