The Vent and Rant Thread

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

Do you normally charge a flat fee for your services? Maybe you could state up front that anybody who doesn't follow instructions will be charged an hourly rate (in addition to your standard fee) for you to fix their mess!

Yes. But the reality is, it's a tough market and you can't be too negative or it scares them off. At one point, I'd actually made up a checklist, of stuff that publishers need to do, to successfully publish their books. I realized after a few weeks that if I gave a prospective client the checklist--they disappeared and never came back. It was too much work. They don't want to know. And don't forget, I'm NOT their boss--they're ours, effectively.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

In the printing business, they have the acronym AA, which stands for "Author's Alterations". This translates to "We charge extra for aggravation", as AAs occur when the author wants to make a change after the job is on press.

Yes, Dennis, and we have that too. That's not really the problem.

A job goes to a printer. The printer sets up the job on press, and runs proofs for the client to approve. Usually, those changes will be things under printer control, like not getting colors in a color job quite right. That's a minor on press adjustment. Make it, and print.

Sometimes the client decides on seeing the proof that they really want something different than what they sent to be printed in the first place. This is doable, but may require creating new plates and setting up the job again. Press time on major commercial presses is carefully scheduled, and having to rip up the schedule and redo everything is not well thought of. The printer will charge you extra (a lot extra) if you want that. Sometimes clients think better of it and decide they can live with what they originally sent when they find out how much extra the changes will be...

(I used to work for a major commercial printer decades back, and saw this frequently. I encountered one case that left me grimly amused. We had done an annual report for a corporation. There was an error in the financials in fine print that were part of the report. The way the applicable regulations were written, we couldn't just insert an errata sheet. They had to redo the entire job from scratch. Client error, not ours, but nobody was happy. The client had to pay for a whole new job. We had to redo our production schedule and decide who we had to make unhappy because their job wouldn't be on the big Rockwell 4 color web offset press when it was originally scheduled to be. It's a reason I'm glad I'm not in that business these days.)

Ditto. That sort of thing, we have.

But meanwhile, it sounds like you need to rethink your quotes, more carefully delineate just what you commit to do as basic service, and what you can do but will charge extra for if you are asked to do it. You want to be able to point to what the client agreed to when you signed the original contract and say "The contract doesn't cover this. I'm going to have to charge you more as specified in the supplemental fee schedule I sent you along with the original contract."

Again--that's honestly not the issue. They make AA's, we charge 'em.

The big issue, for me, are emails. I know, it sounds dumb, but we STILL get huge, massive numbers of emails, and they all take time. When client X sends me an email with 10 or 20 questions in it--and this happens all the time--I don't know of a good way to say "I can answer your questions but it will cost you money." The problem, as I see it, is that they believe that the questions they ask us are part of OUR service. For example, "do I need an ISBN?" "Should I register my copyight?" "How much should I charge?" It's freaking endless.

My view is, that crap ISN'T part of our service. Our service is fairly simple--you pay us, you get two products. One for print, two eBooks. Maybe a cover, etc. But we're NOT a free self-publishing consulting service that's a one-stop shop for answering questions. I feel that as SELF-publishers, they should research this stuff, register their own ISBNs, and all that. It's a BUSINESS, and they should treat it as such--not think that they are the AUTHOR and I'm their Publisher. I'm NOT and that constant advice is not part of what we sell. That's what the likes of Outskirts Press, etc., do, for about 3x our fees. THIS is the conundrum.

Like my other kvetch, about the damn cover artists. It's all part and parcel of the same damn problem. They see me as some Publishing Mommy, answering all their questions. I resent it, because my time is sparse enough as it is.

(To talk about how much email I deal with, seriously, I use Grammarly in my browser, as a typo-catcher, right? All my client emails are browser-based, both in our PM system and my admin system. Know what Grammarly tells me? That since 12/2015, I have typed 6,375,620 words. I mean...think about that. I'm NOT working on a book or anything remotely like that. That's 99% email. In 3.5 years, I've written 63.75 long novels, or 100 short ones. Take your pick. 6,325 words per working day, 6/days/week for 3.5 years. So, every 10 working days, I write a romance novel. Sheesh.)

The client will doubtless squawk, but they either pay up or it doesn't get done.
______
Dennis

Still can't figure out the email issue.

Originally Posted by CRussel

We called those "change orders". And got rich off them.

Charlie.

I don't disagree, Charlie. That part is easy. See above, sweetie.

Hitch

[binaryhermit]

wait, I'm confused, I thought books would be printed using something not entirely unlike the printers you can go to the store and buy. This thread makes it sound like it's actually more like what was invented by Gutenberg back in the day.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by binaryhermit

wait, I'm confused, I thought books would be printed using something not entirely unlike the printers you can go to the store and buy. This thread makes it sound like it's actually more like what was invented by Gutenberg back in the day.

In terms of printing, solely, we're actually discussing both. POD printing--which is something like a home printer, although it typically works in signatures of 4, and Dennis was discussing old-school (Gutenberg) type printing, more or less.

What I'm talking about, though, in my kvetches, isn't actually related to the printing itself, generally.

Hitch

[tempest@de]

I find that most people don't want to do the work so they imediately ask you to do it for them, but if instead of answering their questions you tell them that the answer to their question is, pointing out that you already answered when you sent them the manual / guidelines maybe some of them will take the int and do it.

maybe when they ask you questions by email you could send them a generic email pointing them to the manual, FAQs, or guidelines.

That's what I do, usually the first time they are not happy but since they see that I'm not going to do the work for them next time they don't even try. Granted I'm not in your field but lazy and stupid people are everywhere.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by tempest@de

I find that most people don't want to do the work so they imediately ask you to do it for them, but if instead of answering their questions you tell them that the answer to their question is, pointing out that you already answered when you sent them the manual / guidelines maybe some of them will take the int and do it.

maybe when they ask you questions by email you could send them a generic email pointing them to the manual, FAQs, or guidelines.

That's what I do, usually the first time they are not happy but since they see that I'm not going to do the work for them next time they don't even try. Granted I'm not in your field but lazy and stupid people are everywhere.

What slays me is, I do that! I send them to our manual, to our handouts, to our Uploading Guides, to...you name it. Then, after I send that, they write BACK or they call and say, "yes, but I don't understand it."

I never quite know what to say then. I know full well that they didn't bother to read it. Couldn't even take a look. But what am I supposed to say, "oh, you're a liar?"

Hitch

[badgoodDeb]

"It's right there, on page 77. If you can't be bothered to read that far, then why do you expect anybody else will bother to read YOUR book?"

In addition to "change order" fees, how about "email fees", and charge per each 10 lines of email they send you (so they can't shove all the questions in ONE email to escape fees). Every time they ask, send the SAME FAQ back to them. It *is*, after all, the answer. If that's the only answer they ever get (people who demonstrate that they need this treatment), they will either read it or go away.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

"It's right there, on page 77. If you can't be bothered to read that far, then why do you expect anybody else will bother to read YOUR book?"

In addition to "change order" fees, how about "email fees", and charge per each 10 lines of email they send you (so they can't shove all the questions in ONE email to escape fees). Every time they ask, send the SAME FAQ back to them. It *is*, after all, the answer. If that's the only answer they ever get (people who demonstrate that they need this treatment), they will either read it or go away.

Yeah, it's definitely getting to that point. I hate to go that route, but I'm not kidding when I say that somehow, someway, the self-pubs seem to be less well-prepared, less-research-y, less-willing to do their own work, the longer this goes on. I don't really understand it. There are kajillions more articles, Youtube vlogs, etc., now than there were in 2010 or even by 2012, but it's as though they don't exist. On the KDP forums, I've started answering questions with LMGTFY:search term. It's absurd.

I don't get it at all. What other small business does someone launch, with NO preparation, NO research, no NOTHING? Would you open a restaurant, if you hadn't been a cook/chef, without ANY training at all? Without knowing how to price the cost of your meals and foodstuffs? HR, FFE, etc.? No, at least, not any sane person.

I really wish more people would stop glossing over the SELF in self-publishing. But, alas alack, that is a forelorn hope, methinks.

Hitch

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Would you open a restaurant, if you hadn't been a cook/chef, without ANY training at all? Without knowing how to price the cost of your meals and foodstuffs? HR, FFE, etc.? No, at least, not any sane person.

According to some of the cooking shows I have seen; yes, yes they will. At least if you are self-publishing you probably aren't waging your life savings on success since most (I hope!) still have their day jobs until they actually achieve some of that success.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Dazrin

According to some of the cooking shows I have seen; yes, yes they will. At least if you are self-publishing you probably aren't waging your life savings on success since most (I hope!) still have their day jobs until they actually achieve some of that success.

But it's only different in matters of degree. Conceptually, it's exactly the same.

Hitch

[Dazrin]

Completely agree with that. Whether it's a job/career/hobby/whatever. If you want to succeed at it, you should learn how to do it and pay attention.

I think the lack of criticality is why some of them behave that way though. They still have a day job so they think they can get away without actually working or knowing what they are doing. They just want to do the "fun" stuff and try to foist anything else on you. But, as indicated by the failed restaurateurs, even if it is critical a percentage of them will still not do their part.

[badgoodDeb]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I really wish more people would stop glossing over the SELF in self-publishing. But, alas alack, that is a forelorn hope, methinks.

Hitch

Post a second price for those who want YOU to do this part of the task, making it no longer SELF publishing. "HoldYourHand" publishing, maybe.

No, I know they won't acknowledge that they want that. But perhaps *having* a second price point listed, can then allow you to answer "If you want me to research all this for you, then you are asking for price point HIGHER rather than low-SelfPub price point".

[4691mls]

I'm curious - do you read the books? And if so, how many of your customers have written something pretty good vs how many have written utter dreck?

[wodin]

I'm guessing largely dreck.

[badgoodDeb]

I'd bet the "half way decent" books have authors that read your instructions. The "utter dreck" books are the HoldMyHand people.

[4691mls]

I guess it's possible there could be really creative, artistic types who can come up with good fiction but aren't good with the technical side of things. But I would also bet on the dreck