"Why e-books cost money to publish"

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Question. When you take a hardback and reprint it to a MMPB, exactly what copyediting (and separately copyproofing are done)? This is not a trivial question. The plates are not the same, different font sizes, sometimes different fonts, and diferent pages lengths.

Good question. Sometimes they just reduce the plates and that's all there is to it. But more often they do what you say, and in that case, new proofs may go out to the author for scrutiny, and are presumably also proofread by a second party. This also an opportunity to correct errors that crept into the hardcover, and sometimes make final revisions (usually minor).

It's also a big PITA. (By this point, the last thing you want to do is read that @$#@# book again.) But you want the book to go out in the best shape possible, so you do it.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by starrigger

Good question. Sometimes they just reduce the plates and that's all there is to it. But more often they do what you say, and in that case, new proofs may go out to the author for scrutiny, and are presumably also proofread by a second party. This also an opportunity to correct errors that crept into the hardcover, and sometimes make final revisions (usually minor).

It's also a big PITA. (By this point, the last thing you want to do is read that @$#@# book again.) But you want the book to go out in the best shape possible, so you do it.

Jeff, I think this is where the disconnect between the publishers and e-book enthusiasts occur. The publishers in these threads are looking at the editing process - "the book will sell better if you cut this scene, speed up this page and add more explanation here" - as part and parcel of creating an e-book, not just the copy proofing required of new plates. The e-book enthusiast, however, feels that once a book has been printed, the copy editing is finished. All then that is required is copy proofing, the same as any other galley proofing that any new paper edition's plates needs. PITA yes, but not a Manhattan Project either.

The other aspect is could this work (e-book copy proofing) be offloaded sucessfully from the Author's/Publisher's back? When I look at the quality of some of the commercial offerings, it wouldn't take much. Many e-book enthusiasts are willing to scan/proof favorite books for books/authors pro bono publico, but suggesting using this "free" labor has always been met upon with scorn by publishers. Yet I look at the thriving Public Domain efforts in the world, and doggone it, it's not bad, and steadily improves over time. Perfect? Probably not, but neither are commercial proofing jobs. And I can't understand why "outsourcing" free labor is such a bad idea...

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Yet I look at the thriving Public Domain efforts in the world, and doggone it, it's not bad, and steadily improves over time. Perfect? Probably not, but neither are commercial proofing jobs. And I can't understand why "outsourcing" free labor is such a bad idea...

Distributed Proofreaders does an excellent job, but it works because the volunteers know that their effort goes into making public domain stuff widely available. There will be far fewer volunteers for doing proofing for commercial organizations.

But the main reason is that free labour can't be relied upon. It will cost the publisher a lot more if a deadline is missed because a volunteer didn't get finished (or perhaps started) on time.

And then there's the need for paid staff to find volunteers, assign tasks, ensure confidentiality, and check the work coming back in.

I can certainly see why relying on volunteers is a bad move for a commercial organization.

[gwynevans]

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

Hell, I'll do it for them cheaper than what they are paying people now, I'm sure.

Read all day and get paid? Plus utilizing my grammar nazi skills? Where do I sign up?

Well, while this is from 2007, it's probably a good starting point...

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Question. When you take a hardback and reprint it to a MMPB, exactly what copyediting (and separately copyproofing are done)? This is not a trivial question. The plates are not the same, different font sizes, sometimes different fonts, and diferent pages lengths.

Ralph, if you are asking the question of me, I cannot answer it. The books I work on are not trade books and thus do not have more than one print form (i.e., they are not printed as both hardcover and softcover editions; it is one or the other).

However, I will say this: When it comes time to reprint some of these books, we have to recreate pages to correct errors that were missed in the first printing. These errors are found by the author and often are author errors (i.e., errors that a copyeditor or proofreader would not be expected to find because they are errors of fact in specialized knowledge areas).

The one thing that is certain in publishing is that copyediting and proofreading reduce -- not eliminate --errors, and repeated copyediting and proofeading by different sets of eyes continues the reduction cycle. I have yet to read a book in which an error cannot be found.

[Alisa]

I'm curious how much of the cost of the publishing process they're trying to recoup with expensive hardbacks. My understanding is the hardback only costs a few more dollars to produce per unit than the paperback. It's a high margin item that seeks to extract the most money it can from people who don't want to wait for the paperback. They add some value for the consumer with the more attractive and durable packaging so they don't think they're totally being taken advantage of but ebooks, especially with DRM, don't have that added benefit. They're not going to convince ebook buyers to pay that huge margin for getting the book right away. They've been trying and they've been failing.

Honestly, I think this hardback v. paperback model is starting to crumble. You're seeing more books going straight to paperback. People don't want to pay the exorbitant prices they want for hardback and making them wait for the paperback probably costs them sales. Authors do their publicity tours for the hardback release. I'm sure many people see the reviews or the interviews and decide they'll buy the book when the paperback comes out, then they forget or lose interest. That's a lost sale. I bet for most books, you'd get better overall sales if you went straight to paperback. Do a nice paperback printing a slightly higher cost and sell more units. Rather than high margin and low margin, go for a medium margin.

[Xenophon]

Some publishers have experimented with simultaneous release of hardcover and trade paperback. Based on what I've heard from folks at Baen, they consider those experiments "successful." Sadly, I don't know more than that one-word result.

Xenophon

[Falbe Publishing]

All media costs money to bring to market, but the quote that started this post is disingenuous. The $26 price is a retail price. The publisher will be selling that book wholesale for the most part with a 40 to 60 percent discount. So, $26 x .40 = $10.40. So when you consider the revenue that a publisher who sells mostly wholesale is expecting, the retail price is not it. By the logic proposed in the blog quote, the wholesale price for an ebook from the publisher should be $8.40. Then you would have middleman costs for retail.

[Angst]

One of the advantages of ebooks is that you never run out of stock. When you never need another printing, the shelf life of the book is equal to the copyright license and the supply will always match the demand. I enjoy finding old out of print books available as ebooks, sometimes at ridiculously low prices.

[brecklundin]

somehow these discussions all remind me of the story about IBM when they were first deciding the fate of the original their PC architecture and how to compete with the announced Apple PC's. They had their required meetings, studies, focus groups and what not. The conclusion was they did not see the PC as a viable revenue stream because, by IBM's won numbers, it would take months of meetings to simply ship an empty box and they would never be able to compete with Apple if IBM continued business as usual in this new PC market.

The gist of this was the company was bloated in the middle and top. There was no way to control costs enough w/o a new business model required to compete in the emerging PC technology market.

Today's publishers seem to be the in same position. They are simply not (or do not want to be) nimble enough to adjust to the new market that ebooks represent. And the current management make up of these companies simply are acting to preserve their own jobs.

[MaggieScratch]

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

Hell, I'll do it for them cheaper than what they are paying people now, I'm sure.

Read all day and get paid? Plus utilizing my grammar nazi skills? Where do I sign up?

Not to dim your enthusiasm, but you would be proofreading, not copy editing. Basically you would be comparing the ebook text to the "perfect" text and making any corrections. The pbook and ebook texts should be the same. It is an exceedingly tedious process and not at all fun. The people who do it well have my utmost respect (and have saved my bacon more than once).

In the publishing process, a book is edited, copy edited, and proofread. This should all happen BEFORE layout, and does not need to be duplicated for the electronic version. However, after layout in BOTH versions, the processes will be duplicated. The formatted work will have to be proofed against the final pre-layout proofed copy to make sure there were no errors introduced in the layout/formatting process. Also, pbooks are proofed in galley (the layout format) and small changes and corrections can still be made at that time. Those changes also will have to be made in the electronic book version. So at that point, you're doing double work.

I work in a marketing department and we produce most of our material both in print and electronic versions, and the proofreading process is bifurcated this way, so I do speak from experience. And yes, errors can be introduced in the layout process.

All that being said, I think most publishers farm out their ebook production to third party companies, don't they? So it would be proofed against galleys or a final pbook version.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by MaggieScratch

Not to dim your enthusiasm, but you would be proofreading, not copy editing. Basically you would be comparing the ebook text to the "perfect" text and making any corrections. The pbook and ebook texts should be the same. It is an exceedingly tedious process and not at all fun. The people who do it well have my utmost respect (and have saved my bacon more than once).

In the publishing process, a book is edited, copy edited, and proofread. This should all happen BEFORE layout, and does not need to be duplicated for the electronic version. However, after layout in BOTH versions, the processes will be duplicated. The formatted work will have to be proofed against the final pre-layout proofed copy to make sure there were no errors introduced in the layout/formatting process. Also, pbooks are proofed in galley (the layout format) and small changes and corrections can still be made at that time. Those changes also will have to be made in the electronic book version. So at that point, you're doing double work.

I work in a marketing department and we produce most of our material both in print and electronic versions, and the proofreading process is bifurcated this way, so I do speak from experience. And yes, errors can be introduced in the layout process.

All that being said, I think most publishers farm out their ebook production to third party companies, don't they? So it would be proofed against galleys or a final pbook version.

Well you had to go and kill my dreams, didn't you

I knew it was more complicated than that. Otherwise I would be in a different field

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

Today's publishers seem to be the in same position. They are simply not (or do not want to be) nimble enough to adjust to the new market that ebooks represent. And the current management make up of these companies simply are acting to preserve their own jobs.

I just came back from the Tools of Change in Publishing conference in NYC, where publishers essentially show up hoping to figure out how they're going to save their own butts from The Future. As an author (who got a pass through my connection to Read an E-Book Week), it was interesting to see the extent to which publishers are hoping to combine things like e-books into what they are doing right now. They are not really looking for new business models... they are looking for the easiest way to jump onto the e-bandwagon, baggage and all, and enjoy the ride. "Who's gonna do the blogs and Facebook links for us?"

Only a few of them really seem to get that they need to do some radical thinking to truly embrace an e-book market. Fewer still accept that they will need to make radical changes in their print-based products, or they will strangle themselves. Look to the smaller, newer companies and indies... they seem to be able to overcome the inertia of the old guard, and they will be the true drivers of change in publishing.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

Hell, I'll do it for them cheaper than what they are paying people now, I'm sure.

Read all day and get paid? Plus utilizing my grammar nazi skills? Where do I sign up?

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

Well you had to go and kill my dreams, didn't you

I knew it was more complicated than that. Otherwise I would be in a different field

You can volunteer to proofread books, very welcome at pgdp.net ....

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I just came back from the Tools of Change in Publishing conference in NYC, where publishers essentially show up hoping to figure out how they're going to save their own butts from The Future. As an author (who got a pass through my connection to Read an E-Book Week), it was interesting to see the extent to which publishers are hoping to combine things like e-books into what they are doing right now. They are not really looking for new business models... they are looking for the easiest way to jump onto the e-bandwagon, baggage and all, and enjoy the ride. "Who's gonna do the blogs and Facebook links for us?"

Only a few of them really seem to get that they need to do some radical thinking to truly embrace an e-book market. Fewer still accept that they will need to make radical changes in their print-based products, or they will strangle themselves. Look to the smaller, newer companies and indies... they seem to be able to overcome the inertia of the old guard, and they will be the true drivers of change in publishing.

If they want to outsource it, fine with me.

Originally Posted by GeoffC

You can volunteer to proofread books, very welcome at pgdp.net ....

Checking it out I wouldn't mind volunteering!