Kindle user says Amazon remotely wiped her whole library [UPDATED: see first post]

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by taustin

I recall it distinctly, but I don't keep an archive of old advertising, especially advertising that leaves me uninterested in the product.

How about just the general gist of the marketing claim?

"With 2.5Gb worth of storage space that in no way could we ever remotely delete books from."

[TGS]

Would that count as theft, or is it piracy? Just wonderin'

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I don't recall anything (yay or nay) RE Amazon's ability to remotely remove content from a device in their original marketing claims. I'm not saying it might not have been there, only that I don't recall it and would appreciate seeing some corroborating evidence concerning those alleged initial marketing claims.

I don't remember that either, not that they couldn't have said it somewhere. I don't see it on the original Kindle product page from Nov 2007...
http://web.archive.org/web/200711191.../dp/B000FI73MA

[Nexutix]

Amazon reopened the account as of now.

http://translate.google.com/translat...368487&act=url

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by jocampo

Good luck :-)

Even if it's not fair, violating any contract or agreement won't give you the right to ask your money back. So yes, legally they can keep your money, even after taking your ebooks away.

Don't get me wrong, not saying I am not with you, just that such action will be futile.

Violating the contract means they get to keep the money. However, having one's account closed *without* a violation would give the customer a good claim for getting money returned--and if Amazon is unwilling to say what the violation was, or what kind of connection this account had to the "related account," that's a good foundation for getting a refund.

In the US, even with her account re-opened, she might have grounds for a lawsuit against Amazon for the arbitrary closure of the account. (It'd be an expensive hassle to pursue, not worth it unless she has a lawyer-friend who wants to make a specific portfolio of cases.) Even a notice of "we can close your account at any time" doesn't mean "we can send you notice that you're in violation of the terms and close your account" when the customer is not; that's fraud.

Amazon *does* have the right to just randomly close people's accounts for no reason at all. It can decide that it's no longer taking payments from Chase Bank credit cards, and close all those accounts. It can decide that customers with "Q" in their names are bad for the database, and close those accounts. It can decide that anyone who hasn't posted a review in the last year is useless, and close those accounts. Or 10% of them chosen at random.

It cannot, however, inform those former customers that they broke the rules and *that's* why the account's being closed, at least, not legally. That's trying to hide their arbitrary decisions from those customers and whoever they talk to, to make it appear that Amazon acts in good faith with its customer base, so that other customers won't leave en masse. Communication designed to deceive in order to make profit is fraud.

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by Rizla

I respectfully disgree. Amazon deleted a book from user devices without first asking permission. This seems to me to be an infringement of a purchaser's rights. Hardly 'nothing.'

Precisely!

They removed the books first, and informed after the fact, and only AFTER everyone pitched a fit. THAT'S what caused the problem.

Just because they have the ability to do something like this, doesn't mean they should. At least not without proper notification.

[Barbara1955]

Hope she gets instructions to remove the DRM! At least for now she has her books back!
For over a yr I been trying to learn How to remove Amazon DRM. Scared the Hell out of me that Amazon had this control over ebooks I purchased [or any company for that matter!!] A few months ago another member here thru PMs & email helped me get calibre to work for me! Since then I actally Purchased MORE ebooks from amazon than I had the whole time I owned my K3!! I feel I can BUY & Back up my purchses at No Risk to losing anything IF Amazon decides out of the blue to close my account! These Companies dont seem to realise that Freedom from this type of fear means More money in their pockets! DROP DRM = MORE ebooks Purchsed More Money in the Companies Pockets!

[Quexos]

Amazon is evil, I always knew it and that is why I never purchased a kindle. And the fact that kindles are totally not available in my country is purely coincidental ...

[miquele]

Originally Posted by chilady1

I love my Kindle and I don't have a major issue with my Kindle and access, however, having said that, I don't turn on my WiFi all the time and to Apache's comment: Ditto and Amen!

I paid for these books in whatever format, they are mine so if today it is Kindle and tomorrow something else, my library stays with me.

Pragmatic, fair enough. Problem is by contract you're not buying the book, you're paying for the license to read it in their ecosystem (1. Kindle Content, Use of Kindle Content):
[...] Kindle Content is licensed, not sold, to you by the Content Provider. [...]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...deId=201014950

I'm not sure what it came down to in a case in court regarding fair use vs. those conditions, but that's what you signed up for.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Precisely!

They removed the books first, and informed after the fact, and only AFTER everyone pitched a fit. THAT'S what caused the problem.

It does now appear that this was not the case. Her device was broken - so she had no access to the downloaded content - and Amazon simply closed her account - so she had no access to the web versions.

It doesn't sound as if any wiping actually occurred.

Graham

[Barbara1955]

hummm When my son broke my K3 Amazon didnt close my account. Thei still sounds fishy to me!

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Katie1

hummm When my son broke my K3 Amazon didnt close my account. Thei still sounds fishy to me!

Why not read about it?

http://boingboing.net/2012/10/22/kin...azon-dele.html

Linn lives in Norway, where Amazon does not operate (Amazon.no redirects to the Amazon Europe page). She bought a Kindle in the UK, liked it and read a number of books on it. She then gave that Kindle to her mother, and bought a used Kindle on a Danish classifieds site to which she transferred her account. She has been happily reading on it for some time, purchasing her books with a Norwegian address and credit card. She told me she'd read 30 or 40 books on it.

Sadly, the device developed a fault (actually a second time, it was also replaced in 2011 for the same reason) and started to display black lines on the screen (something I've heard from other friends as it happens). She called Amazon customer service, and they agreed to replace it if she returned it, although they insisted on shipping the replacement to a UK address rather to her in Norway.

Then the e-mails that her friend Martin re-posted arrived. Linn has had no explanation from Amazon about what they think she has done wrong. All the e-mails simply refer to "another account which has been previously closed for abuse of our policies", in a tone reminiscent of a patronising official saying "you know what you did wrong so I'm not going to tell you". The e-mails also look as if they are simply a cut-and-paste from some procedure manual, because others have received exactly the same text (with just as little warning, explanation or recourse).

[Sydney's Mom]

Sounds like she was gaming the system. Amazon doesn't operate where she is, meaning they don't have copyrights for that country. By using an email address in a different country, she is breaking the rules.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

Sounds like she was gaming the system. Amazon doesn't operate where she is, meaning they don't have copyrights for that country. By using an email address in a different country, she is breaking the rules.

Amazon regularily sells to countries where they don't have country specific sites which is why they sell international Kindle's to over 100 countries. Haven't seen anything yet to say she was 'gaming the system' (maybe I missed it?).

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

Sounds like she was gaming the system. Amazon doesn't operate where she is, meaning they don't have copyrights for that country. By using an email address in a different country, she is breaking the rules.

Amazon didn't say she broke any rules; they said her account was somehow connected to one that did. If Amazon said she was directly in violation of the TOS, she wouldn't have gotten the support she did.

Amazon's Norway site redirects to the UK site; she apparently bought ebooks through that.