Register Guidelines E-Books Today's Posts Search

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > General Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-26-2010, 10:33 AM   #1
galavanter
Zealot
galavanter has learned how to read e-booksgalavanter has learned how to read e-booksgalavanter has learned how to read e-booksgalavanter has learned how to read e-booksgalavanter has learned how to read e-booksgalavanter has learned how to read e-booksgalavanter has learned how to read e-booksgalavanter has learned how to read e-books
 
Posts: 117
Karma: 958
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: jetBook, iPod Touch, Kindle 3
Style Question - Capitalizing entire words

ARE the first word or words in a section of a book ever capitalized in a book like I have just done?

TWO PDF files of books I would gladly purchase as ebooks, but are not yet available (actually one has become available and I purchased it from Amazon) have the first, or sometimes first two words capitalized.

IS THIS some funky stylistic gimmick or just a conversion error of some sort?

I was certain it was the latter and changed them all manually with Sigil after converting to epub with Calibre.

Then yesterday I purchased a Kindle book from Amazon, published by Simon and Schuster, and the ENTIRE FIRST LINE AND TWO OR THREE WORDS from the second line of every beginning chapter in a subsection is capitalized. This is just in the first chapter of a subsection, like VIII or IX, of the book.

I know ebooks, even from Simon and Schuster or Amazon, are not always perfect, but now I'm not sure if this is intentional or not. Seems goofy to me if it is...

If you have a Kindle app you can download the sample and see exactly what I mean.

http://www.amazon.com/Never-Enough-e...=AG56TWVU5XWC2

Last edited by galavanter; 09-26-2010 at 10:39 AM.
galavanter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010, 10:50 AM   #2
GeoffC
Chocolate Grasshopper ...
GeoffC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
GeoffC's Avatar
 
Posts: 27,600
Karma: 20821184
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Scotland
Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW
It used to be the thing in 18&19 C books; certainly the first word (or three) of the first sentence in each chapter.

Others will have a more definite history of its use, but I see it often at PD.
GeoffC is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 09-26-2010, 11:13 AM   #3
Jellby
frumious Bandersnatch
Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Jellby's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,515
Karma: 18512745
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spaniard in Sweden
Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura
The same way the first letter is often larger and ornate, the first word, few words, or even the first line can be formatted in capitals. It is purely a formatting custom, to make the books look "nicer", it's not a spelling rule or similar.

Quote:
Then yesterday I purchased a Kindle book from Amazon, published by Simon and Schuster, and the ENTIRE FIRST LINE AND TWO OR THREE WORDS from the second line of every beginning chapter in a subsection is capitalized.
This is an example of when it goes wrong. It's OK to have the first line in caps or small caps, but only if you can ensure it will be just the first line. Hardcoding in caps the first dozen of words is dumb. Moreover, hardcoding the caps should be avoided, and CSS styling preferred.
Jellby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010, 12:01 PM   #4
galavanter
Zealot
galavanter has learned how to read e-booksgalavanter has learned how to read e-booksgalavanter has learned how to read e-booksgalavanter has learned how to read e-booksgalavanter has learned how to read e-booksgalavanter has learned how to read e-booksgalavanter has learned how to read e-booksgalavanter has learned how to read e-books
 
Posts: 117
Karma: 958
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: jetBook, iPod Touch, Kindle 3
The ornate first letter I get, even the first word. But the inconsistent first 3 word in caps then first 4 words I don't, and that McGinnis book, well forget it. Maybe the web has something to do with it to. Caps are now shouting.

"A GREEN HUNTING CAP squeezed the top of the fleshy balloon of a head." How could I forget that green hunting cap? Thanks for the replies.
galavanter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010, 12:48 PM   #5
Jellby
frumious Bandersnatch
Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Jellby's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,515
Karma: 18512745
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spaniard in Sweden
Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura
It could be the first word (sometimes the first two, if the first one is a single letter), this often includes more words if it's a proper name, or the first semantic unit ("A GREEN HUNTING CAP" is fine, "A GREEN HUNTING cap" is no), or, as I said, the first complete line, and this means that if the last word in the line is broken across lines, you get one half in caps, the other in lowercase.

Personally, I'd prefer smallcaps instead of caps, but I've seen caps in printed books too, something like:

[size=+7]A[/size] [size=-1]GREEN[/size] [size=-1]HUNTING[/size] [size=-1]CAP[/size] squeezed the
top of the fleshy balloon of a head.

As most things, it gets awkward and ugly when it's badly done, that's probably what you are experiencing. But as a formatting resource, it's legitimate.
Jellby is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 09-26-2010, 08:53 PM   #6
SensualPoet
Wizard
SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
SensualPoet's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,302
Karma: 2607151
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Device: Kobo Aura HD, Kindle Paperwhite, Asus ZenPad 3, Kobo Glo
As a retired typographer, my advise is: DON'T DO IT.
SensualPoet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010, 09:50 PM   #7
dwig
Wizard
dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
dwig's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,613
Karma: 6718479
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Paradise (Key West, FL)
Device: Current:Surface Go & Kindle 3 - Retired: DellV8p, Clie UX50, ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by galavanter View Post
... But the inconsistent first 3 word in caps then first 4 words I don't...
It may be inconsistent in terms of the number of words, but it wasn't visually inconsistent on the printed page, at least in the classic books where is was the current convention. The style was to capitalize roughly the same percentage of the line (e.g. first third of the line, one half of the line, ...). When the words are shorter more words are capitalized.
dwig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 03:13 AM   #8
stevenn
Junior Member
stevenn began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 4
Karma: 10
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Usa
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensualPoet View Post
As a retired typographer, my advise is: DON'T DO IT.
i also agree with this idea,....its helpful,...
stevenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 04:18 AM   #9
Soldim
Not so important
Soldim ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Soldim ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Soldim ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Soldim ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Soldim ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Soldim ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Soldim ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Soldim ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Soldim ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Soldim ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Soldim ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Soldim's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,063
Karma: 10181343
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Zurich
Device: Sony PRS-505, Kindle 4, iPad, Kobo Glo 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensualPoet View Post
As a retired typographer, my advise is: DON'T DO IT.
Is there something like an argument associated with that advice?

I always thought it was one of those parts of typography that some people considered esthetically pleasing, and others consider either unnecessary or ugly. Personally it's something I like when it is in combination with ornamental drop caps in classic works.
Soldim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 06:01 PM   #10
Adjust
Addict
Adjust really knows where his or her towel isAdjust really knows where his or her towel isAdjust really knows where his or her towel isAdjust really knows where his or her towel isAdjust really knows where his or her towel isAdjust really knows where his or her towel isAdjust really knows where his or her towel isAdjust really knows where his or her towel isAdjust really knows where his or her towel isAdjust really knows where his or her towel isAdjust really knows where his or her towel is
 
Adjust's Avatar
 
Posts: 351
Karma: 70000
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Australia
Device: ADE, iPad
I think it adds an extra element of design of the book, instead of the boring Heading then text. And hardcoding, is, well, a means to an end when ADE doesn't display through the use of CSS.
Adjust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 11:31 PM   #11
Fat Abe
Man Who Stares at Books
Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fat Abe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Fat Abe's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,816
Karma: 10606722
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 50th State, USA. Also, PA, NY, CA, and elsewhere.
Device: All of the Above
Fearless Typography

Here is an even more annoying instance of CAP/non-cap sentences:

M Y U S E D - B O O K store had been open for just about a month when the police showed up.

This is the opening sentence of Walter Mosley's novel, Fearless Jones, the pdf version. Notice the spaces between some of the letters of the first three words. It doesn't stop there. Paragraphs in the middle of chapters are also victims of this clever typography. I just couldn't take it anymore, and just re-edited the file to conform to modern standards. At least a text-search now works.
Fat Abe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 11:56 PM   #12
ardeegee
Maratus speciosus butt
ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
ardeegee's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,292
Karma: 1162698
Join Date: Sep 2009
Device: PRS-350
I've seen some books that have a certain length of characters in all caps (or in bold, or itallics, or some combination) and then stop, even if it is in the middle of a word. A bit of searching through recent reads (I remembered seeing something like that not long ago) turned up this one. The Accidental Time Machine has the first line of every chapter in bold-- and a few times that means one word is half bold, half not. Look at this example, where it ends up with

Wednes-
day

http://books.google.com/books?id=Z-E...page&q&f=false
ardeegee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 11:59 PM   #13
ardeegee
Maratus speciosus butt
ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
ardeegee's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,292
Karma: 1162698
Join Date: Sep 2009
Device: PRS-350
By the way, if anyone has a first edition of the Kelmscott Chaucer and are annoyed by the giant first letters, don't throw it away, I'd be glad to pay postage to have it sent to me!
ardeegee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question- Hypens (dashes) insterted between words? sn0fl8k3 Calibre 16 08-21-2010 04:47 AM
Epub style question - TOC luthar28 ePub 4 08-04-2010 07:19 PM
Mobi TOC style vs ePub style? phearlez Kindle Formats 3 04-11-2010 06:35 AM
Translating entire pages RickyMaveety Lounge 3 02-10-2009 12:31 PM
Did Calibre really just delete my entire collection?! GavinZac Calibre 12 02-06-2009 10:23 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:56 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.