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Old 03-13-2016, 07:21 PM   #16
Cinisajoy
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RE> "What exactly are you wanting to do that is unique and different?"


I live in Montana where connectivity is spotty too. I think this discussion has already told me what I need. I could have doped this all out on my own but here it happened much faster. Thank you all.

I want to be able to transform an epub file into a website with a utility. http://lxml.de/ could be used to do that. Then I want to have another as yet not existing utility that could transform said website (perhaps after some manual HTML/CSS editing) back into an epub file.

That in a nutshell is what I want to do. I already have the CMS (content management system) that looks and acts like a book. I want to be able to use it to display any epub file. So I need the epub to html fragments utility.

Plus I want to be able to edit said HTML manually, on the server with a ssh connection a terminal window and vi, and then run another utility to transform that website back into epub. When ever needed. At the click of a mouse.

I hadn't realized epub3 even existed. I looked at epub, which does not support multi-media, and thought I was a long way off. Now I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Thanks for the complete answer.
Though if you are planning to use existing e-pubs make sure they are in the public domain especially if the websites will be on the wwweb.
One huge word to remember: COPYRIGHT.
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Old 03-13-2016, 07:28 PM   #17
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Yes I should have said something about copyright. I want to be able to display any public domain epub as a website.

DRM is a subject I know little about for ebooks. I'll have to do some reading. I'm sure I could learn a lot right here. I know Amazon and Apple and Sony have their own proprietary ways of making books not readable, unless the client purchases a key.

Websites are easy to hide behind a password barrier. But for epub that's a bit of a problem, it seems:

"The EPUB3 specification does not define any method for digital rights management. The Readium Foundation is working on lightweight DRM: http://readium.org/projects/readium-lcp, otherwise you will need to find a commercial DRM solution."
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Old 03-13-2016, 07:41 PM   #18
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Yes I should have said something about copyright. I want to be able to display any public domain epub as a website.

DRM is a subject I know little about for ebooks. I'll have to do some reading. I'm sure I could learn a lot right here. I know Amazon and Apple and Sony have their own proprietary ways of making books not readable, unless the client purchases a key.

Websites are easy to hide behind a password barrier. But for epub that's a bit of a problem, it seems:

"The EPUB3 specification does not define any method for digital rights management. The Readium Foundation is working on lightweight DRM: http://readium.org/projects/readium-lcp, otherwise you will need to find a commercial DRM solution."
Not all books on Amazon have DRM. That is entirely up to the publisher.
So let me see if I have this correct, you want to turn ebooks into websites and websites into ebooks.
Will this be for your personal use or as a commercial venture? Or do you just want to see if it can be done?
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Old 03-13-2016, 09:32 PM   #19
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Epubs are more or less just websites, in a zip and with additional infos, like a toc etc and only using a subset of css. Calibre for example has a converter for epub2 to htmlz (just a html inside a zip). The problems come, when you want to automatically change the css to fit your site, or you want to do data manipulation. If I remember correctly, there was a project by skreutzer somewhere here, who tried to work with strict and semantically rich xml to enable automatic conversions and other things.

For offline reading of websites, one could either wrap it inside a lightweight server or just make all links relative, if no scripting language is used. No solution for dedicated eReaders, but shouldn't be a problem for android and ios.
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Old 03-13-2016, 09:49 PM   #20
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Lots of good ideas here. I'm mostly doing this for the fun of it. I am retired. I am writing a book about making fishing flies and about boat building--another of many hobbies. There is no money in fly tying books. But I'm doing it anyway. I do make a small amount of money selling digital blueprints (passwords) for do-it-yourself boat builders. That basically pays for my VD server.

I have a CMS on SourceForge that has been there for 15 years. So far I'm the only one who uses it. http://sourceforge.net/projects/robopages. I haven't made a codes update there for over a year. So the new "website that looks and acts like a book" codes are not yet part of that download. They will be. Perhaps before summer. What I have on sourceforge amounts to my own personal source control system, because there are no other users.

I have an ugly proof-of-concept website that looks like a book prototype at http://roadkill.montana-riverboats.c...e/apreface.htm It needs a lot of work yet.

epub is, I think, just a slightly hot rod XML file. Before I retired I spent the last 6 or 7 years working with Tomcat, Java, XML and XML Databases, like Exist and SleepyCat. So I know how to manipulate XML with XPath and XQuery.

Why do I want to do this? It's too cold to fish in winter so I stay busy with boat building and code hacking.

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Old 03-13-2016, 10:22 PM   #21
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I do see it's possible to run a lightweight webserver with php on Android. So my mostly files based CMS could (theoretically, I haven't tried) run on Android.

Then what I already have could be made to deliver book like contents now, even when not connected to the internet--in a way that ALREADY supports multi-media........within local storage limits anyway. Now that I think about it an Android web server that delivers book-like contents could also support a little home rolled DRM. If you wanted it.

The customer would have to install the webserver package and then download the source content, with a dynamically generated key of some sort, that they would ONLY get if (and only if) they also purchased a login key. None of that works now but I don't see why it wouldn't. And all of it would use existing technology, with no need to wait for enhanced ebook readers of the future or not-yet-existing epub3 DRM

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Old 03-13-2016, 10:47 PM   #22
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Lots of good ideas here. I'm mostly doing this for the fun of it. I am retired. I am writing a book about making fishing flies and about boat building--another of many hobbies. There is no money in fly tying books. But I'm doing it anyway. I do make a small amount of money selling digital blueprints (passwords) for do-it-yourself boat builders. That basically pays for my VD server.

I have a CMS on SourceForge that has been there for 15 years. So far I'm the only one who uses it. http://sourceforge.net/projects/robopages. I haven't made a codes update there for over a year. So the new "website that looks and acts like a book" codes are not yet part of that download. They will be. Perhaps before summer. What I have on sourceforge amounts to my own personal source control system, because there are no other users.

I have an ugly proof-of-concept website that looks like a book prototype at http://roadkill.montana-riverboats.c...e/apreface.htm It needs a lot of work yet.

epub is, I think, just a slightly hot rod XML file. Before I retired I spent the last 6 or 7 years working with Tomcat, Java, XML and XML Databases, like Exist and SleepyCat. So I know how to manipulate XML with XPath and XQuery.

Why do I want to do this? It's too cold to fish in winter so I stay busy with boat building and code hacking.
When you get that book written, be sure and publish it on Amazon. I am sure you will make a few bucks. There is a small market for fishing and outdoor books.
And by a few I mean not enough to report.
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Old 03-14-2016, 11:19 AM   #23
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nginx is a lightweight web server you can put on any phone or tablet. Ok. That's my mission: chop the head of ebook file formats. Turn the industry towards web sites that look like a book. Websites that run on localhost, on the phone, needing no connection to the outside world.

Then you can have multi-media and DRM. RFN
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Old 03-14-2016, 12:12 PM   #24
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nginx is a lightweight web server you can put on any phone or tablet. Ok. That's my mission: chop the head of ebook file formats. Turn the industry towards web sites that look like a book. Websites that run on localhost, on the phone, needing no connection to the outside world.

Then you can have multi-media and DRM. RFN
Why do you want DRM?
Why would you cut out a big portion of your market?
I am sorry but I would not download some website to my phone. I don't know you (generic you) well enough. For all I know you might be a phisherman or a leper.

All DRM does is make it harder on honest people.

Now if I wanted to host my ebook on my website, I would have it available in all the common formats epub, mobi and pdf. I would also have it on as many major book sellers that I could find.
Oh for your benefit I just looked on Amazon. Just in the sports fishing category, there are 1,263 ebooks on fly fishing.
Why would you make it harder on your potential customers?
I think your idea is cool, but I don't think you will get many hits.

Note, I will use Amazon as an example. Let's say I want a book on fly fishing. I find your website. Ok first you want me to download the website to be able to read it. Will the website be able to remember where I left off, will it sync between devices and most importantly will I need special software to read this book?
What kind of information do you need from me if I want to download your book?

Whereas I can go over to Amazon (or my chosen device site) and grab a book with one small click and it will go to any of my registered devices. If need be, I can then go to MYCAD and send it to the rest easily.

No hoops, no muss, no fuss and I am reasonably certain Amazon is safe.
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Old 03-14-2016, 04:47 PM   #25
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http://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-co...es-to-e-books/

https://www.searchenginejournal.com/...n-ebook/29235/

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Old 03-15-2016, 10:31 AM   #26
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FYI:
epub 3.1 is not a spec. It is a recent proposal (better labeled epub 4 in my opinion) that was put out there by the idpf in an attempt to save/simplify epub3). This proposed spec has many controversial changes that have not been approved and may never be approved.

The current official epub 3 spec is 3.0.1. You actually have to search to find the true final spec on the idpf site as most links point to the current proposal.

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Yes. OK. Epub3 is spot on. Looks like only the readers have to enhanced.

EPUB 3.1 supports audio and video embedded in HTML Content Documents via the new [HTML5] audio and video elements, inheriting all the functionality and features these elements provide. (For information on supported audio formats, please refer to Core Media Types [EPUB31]. For recommendations on embedding video, refer to Reading System Conformance [EPUB31].)

Considering most tablets maintain wifi connectivity to the wwweb I'm beginning to wonder what good the file formats are. Why not connect to a website that looks and acts like a book? Browsers already support all of the above.

An Apache web server plugin that could read an epub file and display it like a website is an interesting idea. Epub is just XML and PHP has a full-featured XPath library. So reading such a file would just be a small matter of programming.

If you're running the Grand Canyon in a white water dory or bonefishing in the Bahamas you might not have wifi connectivity. But most of the time....
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Old 03-16-2016, 03:46 AM   #27
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Why do you want DRM?
Why would you cut out a big portion of your market?
I am sorry but I would not download some website to my phone. I don't know you (generic you) well enough. For all I know you might be a phisherman or a leper.

All DRM does is make it harder on honest people.

Now if I wanted to host my ebook on my website, I would have it available in all the common formats epub, mobi and pdf. I would also have it on as many major book sellers that I could find.
Oh for your benefit I just looked on Amazon. Just in the sports fishing category, there are 1,263 ebooks on fly fishing.
Why would you make it harder on your potential customers?
I think your idea is cool, but I don't think you will get many hits.

Note, I will use Amazon as an example. Let's say I want a book on fly fishing. I find your website. Ok first you want me to download the website to be able to read it. Will the website be able to remember where I left off, will it sync between devices and most importantly will I need special software to read this book?
What kind of information do you need from me if I want to download your book?

Whereas I can go over to Amazon (or my chosen device site) and grab a book with one small click and it will go to any of my registered devices. If need be, I can then go to MYCAD and send it to the rest easily.

No hoops, no muss, no fuss and I am reasonably certain Amazon is safe.
My interpretation of what the OP is doing is: DRM would be an optional feature for those that want it. The web server would be installed to your device just like any other ereader app you might grap, you would not necessarily be aware that is was in fact a web server. I don't know if there are any security concerns with that. We trust and install apps all the time, so why would this be any different?

As a proof of concept, home brew project it it interesting, but commercially it faces a lot of competition.

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Old 03-16-2016, 10:53 AM   #28
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My interpretation of what the OP is doing is: DRM would be an optional feature for those that want it. The web server would be installed to your device just like any other ereader app you might grap, you would not necessarily be aware that is was in fact a web server. I don't know if there are any security concerns with that. We trust and install apps all the time, so why would this be any different?

As a proof of concept, home brew project it it interesting, but commercially it faces a lot of competition.
I trust apps from Google and Amazon. Not sure I would trust the download from an individual.

I think he has a cool idea. My thinking is why would he cut off known ways to promote/get his books out to the public.
He also said something about doing all public domain books.

Why a website that requires a password?
Why not just make the application that you want and make it available on the known stores?
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Old 03-18-2016, 07:44 AM   #29
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I've been away for several days. Sick as a dog. Flu. Almost human again.

Recap:
I'm a 67 year old retired software developer. Recently bought a tablet and started reading ebooks because my eyesight is going South, and with tablet I can increase font size.

I find the current crop of ebooks disappointing. No multi-media. I'm a web guy. I want embedded video, expandable photographs, auxiliary image galleries all wedded to the chapters and pages book concept.

I made some server side (written in PHP) software that displays what looks like a book. I have an always on top Table of Contents plus next previous and goto page buttons. But because it's a website I can embed sound and video. Each chapter can have auxiliary materials, like an image gallery illustrating something. I can click and burrow down into that image gallery but the "Next Page" button still takes me from page 12 to page 13.

You cannot do that with ebooks. Epub3 supports the concept but the ebook readers are still years behind. Ebook readers are a bad idea, I think. They will never (never ever) be able to keep pace with web browsers. Ebook readers are supported by a handful of developers. Browsers are supported by armies of developers.

So. Where are we now? Ebook readers are limited. Browsers are more powerful. But browsers need a web server. I already have software that displays what looks like a book on the web.

In the course of this discussion I have learned and realized it is now possible to install a simple, lightweight web server on a phone. Some packages include PHP and mysql. Although they aren't really necessary for what I'm talking about.

If you want to read a public domain ebook that includes multi-media now it isn't really possible. I have the software to do it as a website. I'm working on a python utility to transoform any epub into the HTML file fragments I need for my web server display. Soon you will be able to read an ebook that includes multi-medial. Using any browser.

What if you aren't always network connected? An app install link could put a simple lightweight webserver on your phone. Then you could download an ebook. The app you previously downloaded would punch it into HTML format. You might be white water rafting but if your batteries aren't dead you can now watch a multi-media ebook, because it's really a website (that visually looks and acts like a book). In this case it's a website entirely (client and server) installed on your phone.

DRM is not something I'm particularly interested in. But it would be relatively easy to paste onto this idea. DRM now is ugly. If you buy something in Kindle format you can't read it in other readers. All that would go away with ebooks as websites. If it's a website any browser can read it. And yet you could STILL make it impossible to read, if the current client has not paid for an encryption key.

I don't care about DRM but others might. All I'm saying is it would not only be possible with the HTML idea, it would be better, because it would work with all readers.

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Old 03-18-2016, 09:06 AM   #30
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Interesting links from Ken Maltby. Will look at those. There is a Python library that has promise as a desktop utility
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