Astak Mentor eBook readers with WiFi and Touchscreen (read-only)

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by NatCh

Trouble is, Amazon wants MobiPocket format only, or no MobiPocket format at all.

It is worse than that, because Amazon wants MobiPocket exclusivity but they don't provide user-level support for their software on these devices. If you have a problem with MOBI on the iLiad or the Cybook it is iRex's or Bookeen's responsibility to fix it. All these companies are getting for exclusivity is a license and example code, with perhaps some coding support for implementation and maintenance.

I don't have a problem with license-only deals (such a license could allow binary-only versions of uBook or FBReader to legally support DRMed MOBI for example), but to then require exclusivity seems a bit much. MobiPocket presumably gets a cut of every DRMed MOBI ebook sold, so the exclusivity requirement appears to be an attempt to potentially for go sales today in the hope of driving other formats out of business in the long term.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

It is worse than that, because Amazon wants MobiPocket exclusivity but they don't provide user-level support for their software on these devices. If you have a problem with MOBI on the iLiad or the Cybook it is iRex's or Bookeen's responsibility to fix it. All these companies are getting for exclusivity is a license and example code, with perhaps some coding support for implementation and maintenance.

I don't have a problem with license-only deals (such a license could allow binary-only versions of uBook or FBReader to legally support DRMed MOBI for example), but to then require exclusivity seems a bit much. MobiPocket presumably gets a cut of every DRMed MOBI ebook sold, so the exclusivity requirement appears to be an attempt to potentially for go sales today in the hope of driving other formats out of business in the long term.

[ off topic ] sheesh, the more i hear about amazon, the less i like them. shades of Micro$oft and all...[ /off topic ]

and back on topic : regarding sales, how will that work for international customers ? will you rely on other distributors or sell directly (via an online shop for example) ?

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by NatCh

Trouble is, Amazon wants MobiPocket format only, or no MobiPocket format at all. They don't want to share the sandbox.

So it's not a question of eReader or MobiPocket, it's a question of just MobiPocket or anything else.

I've asked about that. It's not "Mobipocket only" so much as "DRM'd Mobipocket only". They're not that particular about non-DRM'd Mobi support. So no support for DRM5 MS .lit *and* Secure Mobipocket *and* eReader *and* Sony LRX *and* Kindle Secure AZW. Not as long as Amazon and Mobipocket have any say in the matter.

Derek

[slayda]

All this sounds VERY interesting but just as a sanity check, Pythagorean's theorem does NOT confirm that a 9.7 inch diagonal screen will show an 8.5x11 PDF at full size even if you assume the original had 1 inch margins all around and the reader could trim off these margins. Admittedly it is closer than a 6 inch screen.

Personally I might opt for the 5 inch screen with wi-fi and touch screen, just because it would fit in my pocket better (and of course the price is "barato" - you can determine the meaning from the context.)

[msundman]

It's always nice to see new players in the field, but...

Originally Posted by Robertb

Jump to Page

Why, oh, why would you use page numbers on a device that has variable-sized pages? That's insane! It means that either the page number for some particular point in the text changes as you adjust the font, line height, margins, layout, ..., or you have page numbers that in no way correspond to the actual pages. Please come to your senses and use percentage-based navigation instead, because it actually works consistently and thus isn't confusing.

Originally Posted by Robertb

The operating system will be Win CE

Oh, no, please, no. I really don't want my ebook to keep crashing/rebooting, like my WinCE-based satnav does (and as all other WinCE-devices I've ever tested do).

Originally Posted by Robertb

The Li-ion battery will last ten years

No, it won't. That is, unless you store it at 0°C (unlikely if you're using it in an e-ink device) and at 40-60 % charge (also quite unlikely). A li-ion (incl. li-pol) battery is dead as a doornail in way less than 10 years. If you use the device in the sun a lot and keep it charged it might well be dead in a year.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by msundman

Why, oh, why would you use page numbers on a device that has variable-sized pages? That's insane! It means that either the page number for some particular point in the text changes as you adjust the font, line height, margins, layout, ..., or you have page numbers that in no way correspond to the actual pages. Please come to your senses and use percentage-based navigation instead, because it actually works consistently and thus isn't confusing.

So what? If you have page numbers can't you do the math? If you know you want to go to 50% of the book, and the font size you are at is 500 reader pages, then, lets see um, page 250 would be right. If your font size makes this same content 600 pages, then (give me time here), page 300 would be 50% in.

What you CAN get from page numbers you can't get from percentage. I have the Sony and NEVER once have I looked at the page number where it said for example, Page 123 of 684 and said to myself... damn I wish I knew what percentage of the book that was. It is so INSANE to have these page numbers. However, many times I have thought, oh damn I really should get to bed... wait I'm at page 652 of 678... I'm gonna finish this sucker. But, if it said, 96% read I have no idea if that mean there are 3 pages left or 100.

Stealing the term from John Stossel, "Give me a break...!"

BOb

[tompe]

Originally Posted by msundman

Why, oh, why would you use page numbers on a device that has variable-sized pages? That's insane! It means that either the page number for some particular point in the text changes as you adjust the font, line height, margins, layout, ..., or you have page numbers that in no way correspond to the actual pages. Please come to your senses and use percentage-based navigation instead, because it actually works consistently and thus isn't confusing.

So long as you give the total length also. Knowing that you have read 80% is raher useless if you do not know if the book is 30 paper pages or 1000 paper pages.

[gmanacsa]

If this device is also targeted toward readers of PDF (or other fixed-page formatted) business documents and ebooks, then a fine-grained zoom and a simple mechanism for transferring files would be ideal.

The Sony Reader's crippled two-stage zoom greatly reduces its usefulness for reading some PDFs that are not specifically formatted for the device, since significant portions of the available display real estate are wasted on margins.

A much better solution is a variable-zoom display that allows for finer increments of zooming. Examples include the % magnification control provided in Adobe Reader or even better, the visually adjustable interactive zoom on the iPhone. I realize that the latter (as implemented on the iPhone) is unlikely because of the slow refresh rates on e-ink displays, but perhaps an e-ink friendly interface can be developed.

Including this functionality greatly extends the potential market for this device to all of those who use the ubiquitous PDF format for both ebooks and other types of business or technical documents. Like everyone here, I'm very much forward to seeing this new machine!

[msundman]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

So what? If you have page numbers can't you do the math? If you know you want to go to 50% of the book, and the font size you are at is 500 reader pages, then, lets see um, page 250 would be right. If your font size makes this same content 600 pages, then (give me time here), page 300 would be 50% in.

When you look at the number that's what you'll remember. So, when you remember something was at around 75% then you can find it, but if you remember it was at around page 500 then you also have to remember what page size you used at that time.

Originally Posted by pilotbob

What you CAN get from page numbers you can't get from percentage. I have the Sony and NEVER once have I looked at the page number where it said for example, Page 123 of 684 and said to myself... damn I wish I knew what percentage of the book that was. It is so INSANE to have these page numbers. However, many times I have thought, oh damn I really should get to bed... wait I'm at page 652 of 678... I'm gonna finish this sucker. But, if it said, 96% read I have no idea if that mean there are 3 pages left or 100.

Doesn't sony use some arbitrary, page-size independent "page size"? So how many of Sony's actual pages did that 678-652 translate to? Also, unless you just jumped to 96% then you surely have some idea whether you've read 72 pages or 2400 pages.

And c'mon, I never said to use only percentage. E.g., you could have the word count of the text shown either on demand or all the time in the corner or whatever. Then you'd know how big the text is, and since you're so good with math you'd easily figure out how much a certain percentage is (not that it's very hard, since it's 10-based).

And percentage isn't the only sane alternative. E.g. word count, which I just mentioned, is tons better than page counts since it's page-size independent, and thus not inconsistent on page-independent formats. Even character count would be saner than page count. (You'd probably want it expressed in kchars instead of chars, though.)

Originally Posted by tompe

Knowing that you have read 80% is raher useless if you do not know if the book is 30 paper pages or 1000 paper pages.

a) True, which is why percentage is not enough.
b) "paper page"? Are you kidding me? How much text is a paper page? An A2 filled with a gazillion letters in 6pt text? An A9 with one letter?

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by msundman

Doesn't sony use some arbitrary, page-size independent "page size"? So how many of Sony's actual pages did that 678-652 translate to?

When I set the Sony to Medium font size and it shows the pages at the bottom, page 1 is the first page and the last page is the last page number it displays.

So, it is how many pages it takes to display on the Sony at the current font size. Page=Full Screen of text. So no, I would not say it is "arbitrary".

Frankly I don't care either way... as long as the reader remembers the last page I read and brings me back to the page when I choose the book from the menu I would be fine with no page or progress indicator.

I just objected to your black and white "It's Insane" to show page numbers on a ebook reader device.

BOb

[msundman]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

When I set the Sony to Medium font size and it shows the pages at the bottom, page 1 is the first page and the last page is the last page number it displays.

So, it is how many pages it takes to display on the Sony at the current font size. Page=Full Screen of text. So no, I would not say it is "arbitrary".

Either you must think that "Medium" isn't an arbitrary font size (and can't you adjust margins, line heights, fonts, etc on the sony?), or the sony changes the total page count of a text, depending on your settings.

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I just objected to your black and white "It's Insane" to show page numbers on a ebook reader device.

OK, but then it should follow that it's not insane to force a square peg through a round hole (instead of the proper square hole next to the round one), even if it takes a bit of hammering.
I think both are insane, even if the job gets kinda done. Also, even insane stuff can be somewhat useful.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by msundman

Either you must think that "Medium" isn't an arbitrary font size (and can't you adjust margins, line heights, fonts, etc on the sony?), or the sony changes the total page count of a text, depending on your settings.

Medium is a "specific" font size which the reader labels as "medium". I am sure internally it equates to a specific point size.

Yes, the total page count is adjusted based on the 3 font sizes available. I also don't see a problem with that.

Originally Posted by msundman

I think both are insane, even if the job gets kinda done. Also, even insane stuff can be somewhat useful.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I don't see why adjusting the total page count is a problem since the total page count DOES change as the font size changes.

If you pick up a HardCover copy of a book and a softcover property of the same book and a large print version of the same book, I bet you that ALL 3 will have different number of pages and page 150 will have different text in each one. Is this in any way confusing to you?

Although I still think the definition of insane isn't: "msundman doesn't agree with it."

BOb

[tompe]

Originally Posted by msundman

b) "paper page"? Are you kidding me? How much text is a paper page? An A2 filled with a gazillion letters in 6pt text? An A9 with one letter?

I wrote "page" first but then I thought people would complain that it was not well defined so I wrote "paper page" as a shorthand for approximately the number of words on a normal paper size of an ordinary mass market paper back.

[moz]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Medium is a "specific" font size which the reader labels as "medium". I am sure internally it equates to a specific point size.

On the Sony that's not the case. "Medium" is whatever font size the document uses, "small" is a bit smaller than that, "large" is a bit bigger. I've got documents where the "small" size is about 4 point, just enough to be able to tell that it's probably writing (and large is barely big enough to read comfortably), and one that must have been converted by a large print fan because in "large" mode I get about 3 words per line.

[TommyCooper]

I do hope these Astak Mentor thingumajigs will be available, eventually, in the UK. They sound most satisfactory - pricewise and displaywise. Now all we need to know is, will they be satisfactory formatwise. Belatedly, thanks for the info Robert.

Tommy