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Old 11-12-2014, 11:06 AM   #1606
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My problem is I need a replacement notebook for my aging WinXP notebook, and all my tech friends recommend strongly against getting Win8, so I'm at a loss at what to do at the moment. Wait for Win10?
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:13 AM   #1607
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Originally Posted by emai7s2 View Post
My problem is I need a replacement notebook for my aging WinXP notebook, and all my tech friends recommend strongly against getting Win8, so I'm at a loss at what to do at the moment. Wait for Win10?
I disagree with your tech friends. Windows 8.1 is very good. My only "agreement" would be, if you already running Windows 7, on a non-touchscreen laptop, there is no compelling reason to move to Win8. But, I wouldn't let that stop you from getting a new machine pre-loaded with Win8.

If you really "need" a start menu there is a great 3rd party option. But, if you are only using desktop apps, just pin what you use to the task bar, and Bob's your uncle. That said, the start screen is very usable, just take 10 minutes to set it up to your liking.
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:13 AM   #1608
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what would you be using it for?
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:19 AM   #1609
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I don't care about a Start menu, as long as the system makes sense. My usage is fairly typical - streaming shows, editing videos & MP3 files, storing digital photos, basic word processing & spreadsheets. WinXP is actually fine for all this, but it's getting a bit long in the tooth, and I'm no longer able to update some apps such as Calibre.
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:23 AM   #1610
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Sounds like 8 would be fine then
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:35 AM   #1611
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My problem is I need a replacement notebook for my aging WinXP notebook, and all my tech friends recommend strongly against getting Win8, so I'm at a loss at what to do at the moment. Wait for Win10?
Windows 8 needs a small learning curve.
And even after that, it's not as "hip" as iOS, for example.
It won't be able to compete as a gadget.
For a fun unit, iPad still will outshine any Windows 8 tablet.

But, gadget aspect aside, I don't see any flaws in Windows 8.
The combo desktop/touch optimized isn't perfect.
A single, more consistent UI would be great.
But honestly, not even in theory I have an idea how to solve that.
I still need MS Outlook, for example. I'm simply not satisfied with the way, other programs and/or OSs handle email signatures and such.
A purely touch driven Outlook would be ideal, but how to do that?
So, for now, the desktop can't be eliminated.
This might make the OS appear more "fragmented" and less intuitive.
But on the other hand it allows to solve tasks, no other OS allows for.

The only question to me would be:
Do you need a tablet mode for your Windows 8 unit?
Or would a Windows 8 notebook suffice?
Personally, I wouldn't want to miss the touchscreen. But I need it more on my 8" Windows 8 tablets, than on the 10"+ ones.
On the bigger ones, I'm using keyboards and use them like my notebooks before.
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:53 AM   #1612
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Can a new Win8.1 notebook be easily updated later to Win10? Somehow I feel (based on all the negative press) that Win8.1 is already outdated as an OS.
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Old 11-12-2014, 12:27 PM   #1613
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Can a new Win8.1 notebook be easily updated later to Win10? Somehow I feel (based on all the negative press) that Win8.1 is already outdated as an OS.
Yes it is supposed to be upgradeable to Win10. I wouldn't call it outdated but there are some issues. I have Windows 8 on my desktop and I only use the desktop screen about 95% of the time. It for all intents and purposes behaves fine as a Windows Computer. My wife uses it on a 2-in-1 ASUS portable and uses the App screen most of the time and she has more issues with the two interfaces. The app screen and the desktop screen behave differently. She has some legacy applications that will only run on the desktop screen, one of which uses email. The app version of email won't support that so I had to download a different email application and sometimes they conflict since they don't talk to each other and my wife forgets which one was used. (She has learned to CC herself so that the message gets moved.) Similarly the IE on the app screen sometimes interferes or even hangs with the IE on the desktop if the desktop version is left running. Most of the time she gets along just fine but she is not tech savvy so I occasionally have to fix things. Hers is a touch screen and mine is not.

Compared to every other product in the market place I would not say Win8 is outdated since nothing else in the market can begin to do what it does. However, the main purpose of Win10 will be to integrate the two halves of the OS to make them transparent to the user.

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Old 11-12-2014, 01:27 PM   #1614
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I don't know, the Lenovo Yoga Y3 Pro looks pretty sweet.

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops...-3-pro-laptop/
Yes...

This is the model we are looking at. Specifically, because it addressed some of what mgmueller talked about (the keyboard-on-hands issue), the various "shapes," and the heft of the larger unit (I need an actual screen I can work on).

I don't surf videos, don't play games (I know, I know--kick me outta MR); I simply work. I run 3 different SAS programs in my business (Desk, Teamworks and Freshbooks) and need to receive/send emails, respond to customer comments, mark off milestones, send invoices. My eyes aren't what they used to be, so for me, the SP2 is just a little bit on the smallish side. I've never (yes, get ready to laugh) become accustomed to typing in my lap.

I want something I can use at night, plopped in front of the tv with my husband, or whatever, on those nights when I really need to do, say, another hour's worth of work, but have "left the office," so to speak. I don't intend to use it as a full-time device, as Harry does (Harry: I've seen you speak highly of the SP, thank you for your input).

My existing Lonovo with XP has now lasted 10+ years. Honestly, I gotta figure I've gotten very good value from it. One of the reasons we gravitated to the new Yoga is because it can be repaired and maintained (batteries, etc.) which the SP can't. (And I do like the stylus). BUT...still making up our minds.

mg: not buying blind...just asking for feedback from the gang here.

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Old 11-12-2014, 02:38 PM   #1615
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Yes...

This is the model we are looking at. Specifically, because it addressed some of what mgmueller talked about (the keyboard-on-hands issue), the various "shapes," and the heft of the larger unit (I need an actual screen I can work on).

I don't surf videos, don't play games (I know, I know--kick me outta MR); I simply work. I run 3 different SAS programs in my business (Desk, Teamworks and Freshbooks) and need to receive/send emails, respond to customer comments, mark off milestones, send invoices. My eyes aren't what they used to be, so for me, the SP2 is just a little bit on the smallish side. I've never (yes, get ready to laugh) become accustomed to typing in my lap.

I want something I can use at night, plopped in front of the tv with my husband, or whatever, on those nights when I really need to do, say, another hour's worth of work, but have "left the office," so to speak. I don't intend to use it as a full-time device, as Harry does (Harry: I've seen you speak highly of the SP, thank you for your input).

My existing Lonovo with XP has now lasted 10+ years. Honestly, I gotta figure I've gotten very good value from it. One of the reasons we gravitated to the new Yoga is because it can be repaired and maintained (batteries, etc.) which the SP can't. (And I do like the stylus). BUT...still making up our minds.

mg: not buying blind...just asking for feedback from the gang here.

Hitch
From all you describe, touchscreen doesn't seem that important?
Like I wrote: I mainly use it myself on the 8" Windows 8 tablets. Those I most of the time use without keyboard. When using Surface Pro 3 or any other Windows 8 device >10", I normally use a keyboard. Either the detachable one from Microsoft or a bluetooth solution. But then, when having a keyboard, I barely use the touchscreen.
That's the main reason, why I've sold my Google Chromebook Pixel. Beautiful machine. But I simply didn't find any usage pattern for the touchscreen. Even when surfing the web, I'd rather use the touchpad than lean over and use the touchscreen.

So maybe a Windows 8 notebook (since you replace another notebook anyway) would be enough? Significantly would broaden your horizon.

And don't underestimate: The bulk and weight of Surface Pro 3, same certainly for the Lenovo and similar devices, is quite significant. I admire Microsoft, how thin they have made it. But I even found iPad 3 to heavy and bulky to hold for extended periods of time. Even more so the devices in question.
Meaning: I barely use Windows 8 tablets >10" actually as tablets, but almost exclusively as notebooks.

Why did I buy Surface Pro 3 then, instead of a "real" notebook?
First of all, I didn't like the alternatives. The Asus I saw was a bad copy of my MacBook Air.
Second of all, I had to buy the newest breed, of course.
But I didn't really look for an exclusive work tool. It's always about the fun factor for me as well.
But strictly focusing on work, there certainly are great Windows 8 notebooks. And they even are cheaper than the hybrids and the likes.

BTW: You briefly mention the pen on SP3. Absolutely great. Very positive surprise. I really struggled on Surface Pro 2. It wasn't a real problem, in the center of the screen it was highly accurate and off only in the corners. But it still did annoy me. Not because it was an actual problem. But because I knew, they inaccuracy was there. I've tried all the tips from XDA, but to little avail. And then came Surface Pro 3. Wow! Many stated "Yikes, it's not WACOM any longer". I only can say, it's perfectly accurate now, even in the corners.

Last edited by mgmueller; 11-12-2014 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 11-12-2014, 02:46 PM   #1616
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...Specifically, because it addressed some of what mgmueller talked about (the keyboard-on-hands issue)...Hitch
I haven't seen it yet and didn't find it on the pictures:
How did they solve the "keyboard-on-hands-issue"?
Only solution I can think of, would be swirling it around like it was with the former hybrids. But then it wouldn't be "Yoga" anymore?!

I liked the Sony and Toshiba solutions, albeit mechanically meticulous.

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Old 11-12-2014, 02:58 PM   #1617
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Hi, mg:

I knwo this is a skosh OT, but: I'm looking at (not as a reader, but as a laptop, etc.), the SP3; the Lenovo Thinkpad T-whatever series, and the Lenovo Yoga Pro, the new-er Pro that's aimed at the working market, with the 3-way stand, the stylus, etc.

I saw you make some disparaging comments about build quality with both the Thinkpads and the Yogas, herein, is that right? I mean...I've always found Thinkpads built hell for stout, ready for almost anything, durable...so I'm surprised to see you say that they are not. Did you test/do you have the ThinkPad T series laptop, and the ThinkPad Yoga, rather than the Lenovo Yoga? The one that has all the goodies, stylus, yadda, rather than the Notebook?

I wouldn't disrupt, but I'm going to buy this week (my Thinkpad is now 10 years old, and it wants a rest), and your tastes and demands seem to run similar to mine. The spouse wants to get it purchased ASAP for an upcoming birthday of mine (no, don't bother asking when/how many) and so...{sigh}, your thoughts would be most welcome.

TIA,
Hitch
BTW: Your question came at a lucky time.
I had asked Alex Turcic to close my account and delete my threads and polls yesterday.
Recently I've had 2 quite unpleasant threads/polls, with head smacking comments and such.
Maybe I'm oversensitive. But where I come from, headsmacking is the nonverbal equivalent of saying "you're an idiot" and a total no-go for me.
(Maybe I'm headsmack-worthy, but it's still against all kinds of web ethics and civilized behavior).
I deliberately had ignored the last thread with such comments since yesterday and only logged in to see whether I've got any news re. my account and such.
Then I saw your question and calmed down a bit.
Still: I'm surprised by the aggression and especially the tone of some statements and have to think over the weekend, whether and how to move on...

Last edited by mgmueller; 11-12-2014 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 11-12-2014, 03:12 PM   #1618
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BTW: Your question came at a lucky time.
I had asked Alex Turcic to close my account and delete my threads and polls yesterday.
Recently I've had 2 quite unpleasant threads/polls, with head smacking comments and such.
Maybe I'm oversensitive. But where I come from, headsmacking is the nonverbal equivalent of saying "you're an idiot" and a total no-go for me.
I deliberately had ignored the last thread with such comments since yesterday and only logged in to see whether I've got any news re. my account and such.
Then I saw your question and calmed down a bit.
Still: I'm surprised by the aggression and especially the tone of some statements and have to think over the weekend, whether and how to move on...
Generally headsmaking icon means I am an idiot, thanks for straightening me out.

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Old 11-12-2014, 03:25 PM   #1619
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Generally headsmaking icon means I am an idiot, thanks for straightening me out.

Dale
Not in this context:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=153
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=144

HarryT's comment: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=187

In private life, I immediately would eliminate such people from my surroundings.
Energy vampires, nothing to gain from them...

BTW: It was another guy in the other thread a few weeks ago, so there are at least 2 head smackers.

Last edited by mgmueller; 11-12-2014 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 11-12-2014, 03:46 PM   #1620
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Not in this context:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=153
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=144

HarryT's comment: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=187

In private life, I immediately would eliminate such people from my surroundings.
Energy vampires, nothing to gain from them...

BTW: It was another guy in the 2nd thread, so there are at least 2 head smackers.
Maybe we need to remove it. The head against the brick is a bit different and IMHO worse but I see your point. Harry was responding to the same guy as in the other posts and smacking back. I have not seen him do this normally. Some people can be rude sometimes I am afraid but I wouldn't let this stop you from being here among a lot of other very nice people.

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