Fixing a manual Table of Contents

Tango Mike · 12-07-2011, 02:00 PM

Newbie with Mac OS10.6.3 using Sigil to convert a Word 2008 document into an ePub for upload to iTunes Connect used advice from this forum to pass validation and upload the book successfully. Thanks to all who assisted.

One little glitch remains: I created a manual Table of Contents in the original Word file to work in conjunction with the auto-generated NCX, and those links from the TOC to the chapter headings work as advertised.

But the link from the chapter headings back to the TOC puts the reader one chapter too far, on the Dedication page rather than on the first page of the TOC, which is the very next chapter.

I have no expertise with HTML, and am wondering if there is a WYSIWYG way of fixing this bookmark problem within Sigil. I need to move the existing TOC bookmark from where it is and place it one chapter later in the book. Is this possible?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

theducks · 12-07-2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tango Mike

Newbie with Mac OS10.6.3 using Sigil to convert a Word 2008 document into an ePub for upload to iTunes Connect used advice from this forum to pass validation and upload the book successfully. Thanks to all who assisted.

One little glitch remains: I created a manual Table of Contents in the original Word file to work in conjunction with the auto-generated NCX, and those links from the TOC to the chapter headings work as advertised.

But the link from the chapter headings back to the TOC puts the reader one chapter too far, on the Dedication page rather than on the first page of the TOC, which is the very next chapter.

I have no expertise with HTML, and am wondering if there is a WYSIWYG way of fixing this bookmark problem within Sigil. I need to move the existing TOC bookmark from where it is and place it one chapter later in the book. Is this possible?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Show us the EXACT filename of the TOC and copy paste, here the anchor point (if the TOC is not a separate file) at the top of the TOC

Then copy the (bad) Link to the TOC from the chapter

Tango Mike · 12-07-2011, 05:33 PM

the ducks: I'm sort of guessing about this, but here's what I think you're asking for:

</style>
</head>

<body class="sgc-21" xml:lang="EN-US" xmlns:xml="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace">
<div class="Section1">
<p class="Ebook"> </p>

<p class="TOC sgc-8">TABLE OF CONTENTS</p>

and

</style>
</head>

<body class="sgc-21" xml:lang="EN-US" xmlns:xml="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace">
<div class="Section1">
<h1 id="heading_id_2"><a id="CHAPTERONE"></a><a href="../Text/Section0004.xhtml#TABLEOFCONTENTS">CHAPTER ONE</a></h1>

theducks · 12-07-2011, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tango Mike

the ducks: I'm sort of guessing about this, but here's what I think you're asking for:

</style>
</head>

<body class="sgc-21" xml:lang="EN-US" xmlns:xml="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace">
<div class="Section1">
<p class="Ebook"> </p>

<p class="TOC sgc-8">TABLE OF CONTENTS</p>

and

</style>
</head>

<body class="sgc-21" xml:lang="EN-US" xmlns:xml="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace">
<div class="Section1">
<h1 id="heading_id_2"><a id="CHAPTERONE"></a><a href="../Text/Section0004.xhtml#TABLEOFCONTENTS">CHAPTER ONE</a></h1>

OK we have a part winner

the Red above is saying look in file Section0004.xhtml for a anchor named TABLEOFCONTENTS
if section0004 is ONLY the TOC, you do not need to reference the anchor. the link will go to the beginning.

if the TOC is located somewhere else you need an anchor

Code:

<a id="TABLEOFCONTENTS"> (whatever)</a>

The first paste only had the title header (assuming the file had the correct name 'Section0004.xhtml') (I think I got that right

)

Tango Mike · 12-08-2011, 12:20 AM

Well, it's pretty obvious that I'm a clutz at this because I just noticed that the TOC is Section0005.xhtml, and the dedication page is Section0004.xhtml. Is the fix as simple as changing the 4 to a 5? Am I really that dense about this? (Please answer the first question and ignore the second . . .)

Toxaris · 12-08-2011, 02:34 AM

Perhaps a silly question, but why do you want to create a TOC when an ePUB already has an internal TOC?

theducks · 12-08-2011, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tango Mike

Well, it's pretty obvious that I'm a clutz at this because I just noticed that the TOC is Section0005.xhtml, and the dedication page is Section0004.xhtml. Is the fix as simple as changing the 4 to a 5? Am I really that dense about this? (Please answer the first question and ignore the second . . .)

Aww... but I want to answer both

YES

Tango Mike · 12-08-2011, 09:29 AM

To Toxaris and theducks:

Thanks for your help and giving the dunce a break on the question . . .

My novel (paperback and eBook) is for sale at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple iTunes, Smashwords, and BooksOnBoard. Since the eBook can potentially be read on any of the e-reading devices and personal computers with Kindle and Nook for Mac/PC and Adobe Digital Editions, and the internal TOC function can vary depending on the device, I decided to include a manual TOC in both the mobi and epub editions so that the reader always has convenient access to it.

If you are looking at a chapter heading anywhere in the novel, you can with one move reach the TOC and with one more move navigate to any other chapter. I don't own an e-reader, but from what I understand, using the TOC function on a Kindle takes more actions than on a Nook or iPad. But rather than include the manual TOC only on the mobi version, I built it in the source Word document that I converted to both mobi and epub.

I think it's a nice feature, and yes, I agree that it's also somewhat redundant. Or maybe I'm just a little masochistic and like creating more work for myself.

Thanks again to you both for your expertise and willingness to help the novice.

JSWolf · 12-08-2011, 09:53 AM

But in making the ePub, you don't need to go through the hassle of making two ToCs. The external ToC (toc.ncx) is all you need for an ePub.

theducks · 12-08-2011, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tango Mike

To Toxaris and theducks:

Thanks for your help and giving the dunce a break on the question . . .

My novel (paperback and eBook) is for sale at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple iTunes, Smashwords, and BooksOnBoard. Since the eBook can potentially be read on any of the e-reading devices and personal computers with Kindle and Nook for Mac/PC and Adobe Digital Editions, and the internal TOC function can vary depending on the device, I decided to include a manual TOC in both the mobi and epub editions so that the reader always has convenient access to it.

If you are looking at a chapter heading anywhere in the novel, you can with one move reach the TOC and with one more move navigate to any other chapter. I don't own an e-reader, but from what I understand, using the TOC function on a Kindle takes more actions than on a Nook or iPad. But rather than include the manual TOC only on the mobi version, I built it in the source Word document that I converted to both mobi and epub.

I think it's a nice feature, and yes, I agree that it's also somewhat redundant. Or maybe I'm just a little masochistic and like creating more work for myself.

Thanks again to you both for your expertise and willingness to help the novice.

EPUB has great to fair TOC support natively

The K4nt:
menu: goto: (arrow navigate to) Table of Contents: enter :/ Select: Enter

My PEz (Mobile ADE):
Guide button: (only 8 items shown per page) Page fwd/back: Item #

Calibre viewer: click on Show TOC button: click on list

ADE
Click 'show Navigation pane: click item

Calibre will create a TOC for Mobi based upon the NCX.
No need to jump through hoops

Tango Mike · 12-08-2011, 10:44 AM

Thanks to all, and I understand what you are saying. For my next book I won't do that. But with all the versions live and for sale, it's far simpler to fix the only TOC problem I have, which is in the epub uploaded to iTunes. It's the only one in which the chapter heading links don't put you at the TOC. All the others work as advertised.

I have just changed all the chapter heading links so they take you to the TOC rather than the previous section with the Dedication. It took about 10 minutes.

The only tiny glitch now is that a "back to beginning" link at the end of the novel puts you at the very last chapter of the TOC rather than at the top of it. That link looks like this:

<p class="SceneBreak"><span class="sgc-19"><a href="../Text/Section0005.xhtml#TABLEOFCONTENTS">Back to beginning</a></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

I'd like to change it to take the reader to the top of the TOC. Anyone want to help with that so you can be rid of me? For a while, at least?

JSWolf · 12-08-2011, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tango Mike

Thanks to all, and I understand what you are saying. For my next book I won't do that. But with all the versions live and for sale, it's far simpler to fix the only TOC problem I have, which is in the epub uploaded to iTunes. It's the only one in which the chapter heading links don't put you at the TOC. All the others work as advertised.

I have just changed all the chapter heading links so they take you to the TOC rather than the previous section with the Dedication. It took about 10 minutes.

The only tiny glitch now is that a "back to beginning" link at the end of the novel puts you at the very last chapter of the TOC rather than at the top of it. That link looks like this:

<p class="SceneBreak"><span class="sgc-19"><a href="../Text/Section0005.xhtml#TABLEOFCONTENTS">Back to beginning</a></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

I'd like to change it to take the reader to the top of the TOC. Anyone want to help with that so you can be rid of me? For a while, at least?

Basically, you've ruined your ePub. You've made it into a mobipocket eBook in ePub clothing. There's no need for an internal ToC and no need to link the ToC headers to this unnecessary internal ToC.

Personally, I find it poor form to do what you've done with the ToC and chapter headers. I find it also looks bad to see links at the top of every chapter that should not be there. What you are doing is ruining your ePub. Please don't do that. It doesn't need to be done and it's more work for you anyway.

Hitch · 12-08-2011, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tango Mike

Thanks to all, and I understand what you are saying. For my next book I won't do that. But with all the versions live and for sale, it's far simpler to fix the only TOC problem I have, which is in the epub uploaded to iTunes. It's the only one in which the chapter heading links don't put you at the TOC. All the others work as advertised.

I have just changed all the chapter heading links so they take you to the TOC rather than the previous section with the Dedication. It took about 10 minutes.

The only tiny glitch now is that a "back to beginning" link at the end of the novel puts you at the very last chapter of the TOC rather than at the top of it. That link looks like this:

<p class="SceneBreak"><span class="sgc-19"><a href="../Text/Section0005.xhtml#TABLEOFCONTENTS">Back to beginning</a></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

I'd like to change it to take the reader to the top of the TOC. Anyone want to help with that so you can be rid of me? For a while, at least?

Actually, ignoring @JSWolf's thoughts on the topic for this 5 minutes (JS, it's a matter of taste, really):

What you have done, however, is make the book unacceptable to iBooks. Apple will reject any ePUB that has an internal, redundant toc such as you have made. Because, according to them, it's not in accordance with ePUB 2.01 spec, which it actually isn't.

I understand your issue--trying to cover all your bases--probably better than most folks here, as we do this commercially and for authors who need/want the widest distribution. Of course, the truth is that 99.8% of all sales will be made on Amazon and Nook, with everyone else--EVERYONE, including Apple--fighting over that remaining 0.2% bone; but nonetheless, Apple will reject that ePUB. It won't make it through their QA.

Personally, I find the "link-back" method not to be poor form, exactly, but incredibly redundant. Most people don't even recognize the chapter headers as link-backs, IME (which is not insignificant); and I don't remember the last time I actually saw any device that didn't have a "jump to" TOC method, whether a tap, click, push...I only make link-back TOC's when the customer is adamantine and won't be moved.

I don't really agree with JS that it's "poor form," but...I would agree that this type of formatting shouldn't be encouraged, if only for no other reason than we should be trying to get device makers/software/firmware to really function from the NCX, rather than any "typed" TOC, and include the ncx in the retailer's previews. IMHO. The "typed toc from the guide" usage, remaining in MOBI, is absolutely--ABSOLUTELY--going away. I guarantee you it won't exist inside of, say...8 weeks, tops. I don't mean that they won't function any longer; the later KindleGen will not be an "old mobi-killer," but the new KATE (K8) won't need/use html.tocs.

Hitch

JSWolf · 12-08-2011, 08:08 PM

Hitch, very well said.

Tango Mike · 12-08-2011, 11:46 PM

Thanks again to all for the advice, explanation, and I guess the scolding is okay as well.

I would like to offer this one little rebuttal: My book with the manual TOC is validated and approved and currently available on iTunes. So the absolute statement "Apple will reject any ePUB that has an internal, redundant toc such as you have made" is incorrect.

That said, you've convinced me to remove it. Now I just have to figure out how to do it.

12-07-2011, 02:00 PM	#1
Tango Mike Enthusiast Posts: 33 Karma: 20 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: none	Fixing a manual Table of Contents Newbie with Mac OS10.6.3 using Sigil to convert a Word 2008 document into an ePub for upload to iTunes Connect used advice from this forum to pass validation and upload the book successfully. Thanks to all who assisted. One little glitch remains: I created a manual Table of Contents in the original Word file to work in conjunction with the auto-generated NCX, and those links from the TOC to the chapter headings work as advertised. But the link from the chapter headings back to the TOC puts the reader one chapter too far, on the Dedication page rather than on the first page of the TOC, which is the very next chapter. I have no expertise with HTML, and am wondering if there is a WYSIWYG way of fixing this bookmark problem within Sigil. I need to move the existing TOC bookmark from where it is and place it one chapter later in the book. Is this possible? Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

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12-07-2011, 05:33 PM	#3
Tango Mike Enthusiast Posts: 33 Karma: 20 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: none	the ducks: I'm sort of guessing about this, but here's what I think you're asking for: </style> </head> <body class="sgc-21" xml:lang="EN-US" xmlns:xml="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace"> <div class="Section1"> <p class="Ebook"> </p> <p class="TOC sgc-8">TABLE OF CONTENTS</p> and </style> </head> <body class="sgc-21" xml:lang="EN-US" xmlns:xml="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace"> <div class="Section1"> <h1 id="heading_id_2"><a id="CHAPTERONE"></a><a href="../Text/Section0004.xhtml#TABLEOFCONTENTS">CHAPTER ONE</a></h1>

12-08-2011, 12:20 AM	#5
Tango Mike Enthusiast Posts: 33 Karma: 20 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: none	Well, it's pretty obvious that I'm a clutz at this because I just noticed that the TOC is Section0005.xhtml, and the dedication page is Section0004.xhtml. Is the fix as simple as changing the 4 to a 5? Am I really that dense about this? (Please answer the first question and ignore the second . . .)

12-08-2011, 02:34 AM	#6
Toxaris Wizard Posts: 4,520 Karma: 121692313 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Heemskerk, NL Device: PRS-T1, Kobo Touch, Kobo Aura	Perhaps a silly question, but why do you want to create a TOC when an ePUB already has an internal TOC?

12-08-2011, 09:29 AM	#8
Tango Mike Enthusiast Posts: 33 Karma: 20 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: none	To Toxaris and theducks: Thanks for your help and giving the dunce a break on the question . . . My novel (paperback and eBook) is for sale at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple iTunes, Smashwords, and BooksOnBoard. Since the eBook can potentially be read on any of the e-reading devices and personal computers with Kindle and Nook for Mac/PC and Adobe Digital Editions, and the internal TOC function can vary depending on the device, I decided to include a manual TOC in both the mobi and epub editions so that the reader always has convenient access to it. If you are looking at a chapter heading anywhere in the novel, you can with one move reach the TOC and with one more move navigate to any other chapter. I don't own an e-reader, but from what I understand, using the TOC function on a Kindle takes more actions than on a Nook or iPad. But rather than include the manual TOC only on the mobi version, I built it in the source Word document that I converted to both mobi and epub. I think it's a nice feature, and yes, I agree that it's also somewhat redundant. Or maybe I'm just a little masochistic and like creating more work for myself. Thanks again to you both for your expertise and willingness to help the novice.

12-08-2011, 09:53 AM	#9
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,974 Karma: 128903378 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	But in making the ePub, you don't need to go through the hassle of making two ToCs. The external ToC (toc.ncx) is all you need for an ePub.

12-08-2011, 10:44 AM	#11
Tango Mike Enthusiast Posts: 33 Karma: 20 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: none	Thanks to all, and I understand what you are saying. For my next book I won't do that. But with all the versions live and for sale, it's far simpler to fix the only TOC problem I have, which is in the epub uploaded to iTunes. It's the only one in which the chapter heading links don't put you at the TOC. All the others work as advertised. I have just changed all the chapter heading links so they take you to the TOC rather than the previous section with the Dedication. It took about 10 minutes. The only tiny glitch now is that a "back to beginning" link at the end of the novel puts you at the very last chapter of the TOC rather than at the top of it. That link looks like this: <p class="SceneBreak"><span class="sgc-19"><a href="../Text/Section0005.xhtml#TABLEOFCONTENTS">Back to beginning</a></span></p> </div> </body> </html> I'd like to change it to take the reader to the top of the TOC. Anyone want to help with that so you can be rid of me? For a while, at least?

12-08-2011, 08:08 PM	#14
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,974 Karma: 128903378 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Hitch, very well said.

12-08-2011, 11:46 PM	#15
Tango Mike Enthusiast Posts: 33 Karma: 20 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: none	Thanks again to all for the advice, explanation, and I guess the scolding is okay as well. I would like to offer this one little rebuttal: My book with the manual TOC is validated and approved and currently available on iTunes. So the absolute statement "Apple will reject any ePUB that has an internal, redundant toc such as you have made" is incorrect. That said, you've convinced me to remove it. Now I just have to figure out how to do it.

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