The pros and cons of Sigil

[theducks]

Originally Posted by KevinH

Honestly, why? In order to set a semantic, you have to mouse over it in the Bookbrowser which will show you what it is set to. You would only invoke the set semantics to actually change it and that makes the last set value rather meaningless, doesn't it.

That is a bit tedious. I have to hit the sweet sot and pause.
Even just making the file Bold if there was a semantic assigned (since there can only be 1) would help. TOC is my prime use, and that file can be anyplace (front or back. sometime there is a duplicate because 1 the original one was not declared).

[BetterRed]

For reasons of disability I avoid the mouse (I can't hit (or hover over) small targets). In Windows I navigate the Book Browser with the cursor keys and I use the menu key to pop the context menu. When setting semantics I keep the Reports window open and Refresh as and when necessary.

Something I would appreciate would be keyboard shortcuts to give focus to the currently open 'windows' - BB, CV tabs, Clips, Reports etc. Actually a popup list of open 'windows' initiated by a single configurable keyboard shortcut might be better - selection of an item from the list would give it focus. Just a thought.

BR

[Doitsu]

Just a reminder, it's very easy to check all semantics entries by looking at the <guide> section in the content.opf file of epub2 books or the landmarks section in nav.xhtml file of epub3 books. Here are some typical examples:

ePub2 (content.opf)

  <guide>
    <reference type="cover" title="Cover" href="Text/cover.xhtml"/>
    <reference type="text" title="Start reading" href="Text/chapter1.xhtml"/>
    <reference type="toc" title="Table of Contents" href="Text/TOC.xhtml"/>
  </guide>

epub3 (nax.xhtml)

  <nav epub:type="landmarks" id="landmarks" hidden="">
    <h1>Landmarks</h1>
    <ol>
      <li>
        <a epub:type="cover" href="../Text/cover.xhtml">Cover</a>
      </li>
      <li>
        <a epub:type="bodymatter" href="../Text/chapter1.xhtml">Start reading</a>
      </li>
      <li>
        <a epub:type="toc" href="../Text/TOC.xhtml">Table of Contents</a>
      </li>
    </ol>
  </nav>

The cover image is tagged in the content.opf file in both versions as:

<meta name="cover" content="cover.jpg" />

I find this method much easier than hovering over each file with the mouse pointer.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

Just a reminder, it's very easy to check all semantics entries by looking at the <guide> section in the content.opf file of epub2 books or the landmarks section in nav.xhtml file of epub3 books. Here are some typical examples:

ePub2 (content.opf)

  <guide>
    <reference type="cover" title="Cover" href="Text/cover.xhtml"/>
    <reference type="text" title="Start reading" href="Text/chapter1.xhtml"/>
    <reference type="toc" title="Table of Contents" href="Text/TOC.xhtml"/>
  </guide>

epub3 (nax.xhtml)

  <nav epub:type="landmarks" id="landmarks" hidden="">
    <h1>Landmarks</h1>
    <ol>
      <li>
        <a epub:type="cover" href="../Text/cover.xhtml">Cover</a>
      </li>
      <li>
        <a epub:type="bodymatter" href="../Text/chapter1.xhtml">Start reading</a>
      </li>
      <li>
        <a epub:type="toc" href="../Text/TOC.xhtml">Table of Contents</a>
      </li>
    </ol>
  </nav>

The cover image is tagged in the content.opf file in both versions as:

<meta name="cover" content="cover.jpg" />

I find this method much easier than hovering over each file with the mouse pointer.

Doits:

I love ya, but that is NOT the same as being able to instantly check the checkmark.

I will say that if the concept is that the () indicates that the semantic is set, perhaps it is just a matter of habituation. I'll also say that I wasted about 10 minutes the other day, screwing around with JUST this thing. I think that the Duck's suggestion, of some other indicator in the tooltip (bold, or..?) would be helpful.

It's not as quick/user-friendly, though, if you end up setting it because it's not there. The old method allowed you to invoke, check, back-out if unneeded, or click if needed. Very simple and clean. Yes, I know that your programmer's brain thinks that invoking=bad, but that's because you are only looking at it from the side of "already set, not needed." If you think about it from the side of the other 50%-100% of the times, it's right-click to invoke, visual check, click to set. See what I mean?

I think I can honestly say that I've NEVER checked the semantic meta using reports, and I, too, used the checkmark method forever.

Offered FWIW.

Hitch

[KevinH]

Sorry but I really disagree. If you want to see if any of multiple files have semantics set, you can simply look at the content.opf (as Doitsu so nicely demonstrated) or the Nav in epub3, or use the Reports feature in either epub2 or 3.

If you just want to check the semantics of just one file, any of the above will also work and so will simply mousing over the file in the BookBrowser (or using the arrow keys as BetterRed pointed out).

Actually invoking set semantics on a file is not the same as it was before where a shortened list of Semantic items was built into a menu. Epub3 semantics are much much richer, and the way the gui was changed to handle that now allows us to soon extend epub2 semantics with the "other" prefix on types that old Sigil did not allow but that are perfectly valid.

In the long run there are plans to add a new window that will show the metadata manifest properties and any associated semantics in a separate window for the highlighted (current tab) xhtml files. That way additional information included in the metadata manifest properties needed for epub3 have a nice home right alongside the semantics.

Either way, taking a page from Kovid's playbook ... "I am not interested in that feature but if someone else wants to implement it (without losing any functionality), I would be happy to include it in a future release."

KevinH

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by KevinH

Either way, taking a page from Kovid's playbook ... "I am not interested in that feature but if someone else wants to implement it (without losing any functionality), I would be happy to include it in a future release."

KevinH

lol...that is always so frustrating...and yet so totally inarguable.....

[nabsltd]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

Side Note: I use Sigil every single day for hours a day... and I had NO IDEA the "hover to see semantics" even existed until Doitsu just mentioned it the other day.

I don't use Sigil that much (maybe 5-6 hours/week), but I also had no idea until I read that hint. This is because I normally right-click so fast that the tooltip doesn't have time to appear.

And, you don't have to use your mouse at all, at least not in Windows. If the file is already highlighted, just click the "menu" key (on the right of the space bar on most keyboards), and the context menu opens. Sure, this is an extreme example, but you can navigate Sigil without ever touching the mouse, if you want.

The "Add Semantics" dialog also violates pretty much every UI design recommendation authority by not showing the currently selected/set item in a dialog control.

[nabsltd]

Originally Posted by KevinH

Sorry but I really disagree.

You disagree that a right-click that showed the state of the set semantics and allowed you to set them is easier than the current version? Really? Yes, I know that we can't have that anymore because of the number of options, but what possible reason is there for not showing the currently set one in the dialog to start with.

If you want to see if any of multiple files have semantics set, you can simply look at the content.opf (as Doitsu so nicely demonstrated) or the Nav in epub3, or use the Reports feature in either epub2 or 3.

These choices really aren't easy, in any sense of the word. The first requires scrolling to the end of the file list box, opening "content.opf", scrolling to the end of the file, then scrolling back in the file list, opening the file in the first "<reference>" tag to see if it matches the "type" attribute for that tag, then repeat for each entry.

The second is at least somewhat better because all the files are clickable links, but the list only shows about 70 files on my 1200-pixel high monitor, and I have dozens (hundreds?) of epubs with more than 70 files. So, there is no easy way to see all the set semantics. OK, so sorting by "Semantics" will group them together, so then I go set what I want, click "Refresh", and WHAM, the sort is reset and I need to re-sort, then scroll to the bottom of the list (because all the files with "empty" semantics sort first right after a refresh).

You can disagree all you want, but even without my courses in Computer/Human Interaction, I'd know that neither one of those choices is anywhere near as easy as they could be.

Last, if you set semantics on a file that you later decide you don't want to have any, you have to manually edit ""content.opf", because there is no way to remove a semantic like there was before (click on the currently-checked item). There needs to be some sort of "unset" item (like maybe "(none)", so it sorts first) in the dialog box.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by nabsltd

And, you don't have to use your mouse at all, at least not in Windows. If the file is already highlighted, just click the "menu" key (on the right of the space bar on most keyboards), and the context menu opens. Sure, this is an extreme example, but you can navigate Sigil without ever touching the mouse, if you want.

I want that, see ==>> https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=17

If the Code View window has focus how can I give focus to the Book Browser window using the keyboard, and vice versa -- in Windows?

I just realised the Window menu would be the logical place to put a list of the windows currently 'open' - eg Book Browser, Code View, Preview, Find and Replace etc. then one could use Alt+W, and arrow down.

BR

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

If the Code View window has focus how can I give focus to the Book Browser window using the keyboard, and vice versa -- in Windows?

I don't think there's a shortcut for that, however, you can press Alt+PgDown (Next File) and Alt+PgUp (Previous File) to load the next/previous file into the editor. (You might have to repeatedly press the shortcuts to display the file that you want.)

@KevinH @DiapDealer: Maybe you could give a window automatically the focus, if a View menu item keyboard shortcut is detected.
E.g. pressing Alt+F1 would display the Book Browser window and give it the focus.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by nabsltd

Last, if you set semantics on a file that you later decide you don't want to have any, you have to manually edit ""content.opf", because there is no way to remove a semantic like there was before (click on the currently-checked item). There needs to be some sort of "unset" item (like maybe "(none)", so it sorts first) in the dialog box.

The set semantic dialog is a toggle. Selecting the same semantic (on the same file) "unsets" it. There's no need to hand edit the opf to remove semantics.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

I don't think there's a shortcut for that, however, you can press Alt+PgDown (Next File) and Alt+PgUp (Previous File) to load the next/previous file into the editor. (You might have to repeatedly press the shortcuts to display the file that you want.)

With repetitive use of Alt+↑, Alt+↓ I end up with more tabs open than I need, which I then have to navigate my way past in the CV window with Ctrl+Alt+← and Ctrl+Alt+→.

Originally Posted by Doitsu

@KevinH @DiapDealer: Maybe you could give a window automatically the focus, if a View menu item keyboard shortcut is detected.
E.g. pressing Alt+F1 would display the Book Browser window and give it the focus.

IMO Toggling the show/hide of a window is quite separate from giving it focus. I always have the Book Browser open, dismissing it and recalling it would be a rather weird way to give it focus. I'm not even sure what its shortcut key is, but I do know it's no longer Alt/F1.

If the open windows were listed at the bottom of the Windows menu then one could tap Alt, W, Up arrows, Enter - a one finger operation.

BR

[KevinH]

Did you miss the point that these were approaches to see semantics set for multiple files at once? Did you miss the fact that mousing over it in the BookBowser will show the semantics of any single file? Did you miss the fact earlier in this thread it was explained they toggle just as before?

Again, I do not like feature bloat for no good reason. Using set semantics just to check a file's current semantic is in my opinion not a good way to do it as it is no longer a prebuilt menu. A simple hover will tell you what you want faster. The hover approach has worked that way since the beginning as well.

Again, if you feel strongly about this feature, it should be really easy to implement by anyone with gui training. Just generate a pull request. I am not interested in spending what little development time I have on something I disagee with.

KevinH

Originally Posted by nabsltd

You disagree that a right-click that showed the state of the set semantics and allowed you to set them is easier than the current version? Really? Yes, I know that we can't have that anymore because of the number of options, but what possible reason is there for not showing the currently set one in the dialog to start with.


These choices really aren't easy, in any sense of the word. The first requires scrolling to the end of the file list box, opening "content.opf", scrolling to the end of the file, then scrolling back in the file list, opening the file in the first "<reference>" tag to see if it matches the "type" attribute for that tag, then repeat for each entry.

The second is at least somewhat better because all the files are clickable links, but the list only shows about 70 files on my 1200-pixel high monitor, and I have dozens (hundreds?) of epubs with more than 70 files. So, there is no easy way to see all the set semantics. OK, so sorting by "Semantics" will group them together, so then I go set what I want, click "Refresh", and WHAM, the sort is reset and I need to re-sort, then scroll to the bottom of the list (because all the files with "empty" semantics sort first right after a refresh).

You can disagree all you want, but even without my courses in Computer/Human Interaction, I'd know that neither one of those choices is anywhere near as easy as they could be.

Last, if you set semantics on a file that you later decide you don't want to have any, you have to manually edit ""content.opf", because there is no way to remove a semantic like there was before (click on the currently-checked item). There needs to be some sort of "unset" item (like maybe "(none)", so it sorts first) in the dialog box.

[nabsltd]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

The set semantic dialog is a toggle. Selecting the same semantic (on the same file) "unsets" it.

That's a really broken UI, then. It definitely should have the current value shown, because it's very easy to right-click on a file and never see the tool-tip for what is currently set. Then, when you click on the currently set value, it should unselect it, and "OK" with nothing selected would clear all semantics.

Ideally, the dialog title (and context menu item) should also change if there is a semantic currently set for the selected file. Something like "Change Semantics...".

[nabsltd]

Originally Posted by KevinH

Again, if you feel strongly about this feature, it should be really easy to implement by anyone with gui training.

Sure, once I learn Qt, whatever language the core code is written in, etc.

I suspect it's damn easy to have the currently set semantics show up (since you know exactly what they are), so that you can set/unset exactly what you want, see that everything is as it should be, click OK, then be done.

Otherwise, on EPUB3 (where you can set more than one semantic), the work flow is currently: look at the tooltip, note what is set right now, open the dialog, click only what you want to change (i.e., set what isn't but should be and unset what is but shouldn't be), then click "OK".

I am not interested in spending what little development time I have on something I disagee with.

Again, disagree all you want, but if you think that workflow is as easy as it could be, I hope that every piece of other software you use changes its UI to be just as "easy".