Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > General Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-08-2018, 09:33 PM   #46
DNSB
Bibliophagist
DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DNSB's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,005
Karma: 21690572
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Aura One, Aura H2O, Aura HD, Nexus 7 HD, iPad Air, Tolino epos
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieTigger View Post
Just to be clear I understand this correctly. Are you saying that the author would break copyright law if they give you a free copy of his article?
Correct. The author has no rights to the article as all rights are signed over to the academic journal. Unlike quite a few other areas of publishing where rights are signed over for a limited time, academic articles tend to be signed over permanently.
DNSB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 09:52 PM   #47
Cinisajoy
Just a Yellow Smiley.
Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Cinisajoy's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,162
Karma: 83811071
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texas
Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieTigger View Post
Just to be clear I understand this correctly. Are you saying that the author would break copyright law if they give you a free copy of his article?
Yes..
Cinisajoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 04:53 PM   #48
barryem
Wizard
barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
barryem's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,773
Karma: 35482144
Join Date: Oct 2012
Device: Paperwhite 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by darryl View Post
There are important and legitimate opinions on copyright which cannot be expressed on mobileread.
While that's obviously true it's also true that most aspects of copyright can be mentioned here and it's entirely possible to have meaningful discussions on the topic.

It seems more productive to focus on what we can do than on our limitations.

Barry
barryem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 11:18 PM   #49
darryl
Wizard
darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
darryl's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,493
Karma: 40356996
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Oasis, Huwei Ascend Mate 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryem View Post
While that's obviously true it's also true that most aspects of copyright can be mentioned here and it's entirely possible to have meaningful discussions on the topic.

It seems more productive to focus on what we can do than on our limitations.

Barry
I mostly don't disagree with you. All areas of Copyright law can be mentioned here. I was even able to mention, carefully, an area where no effective discussion can take place. We can also hold a thoroughly bowdlerised discussion of the area so long as we avoid the elephant in the room. It is true of course that most areas can be discussed here. And yes, so far as these forums are concerned, it is more productive to focus on what we can do. But we also need to bear in mind the limitations and that there are very important areas which cannot be effectively discussed. That there are some legitimate opinions which cannot be expressed.

@Duckie. As others have answered, this is indeed the situation. Authors in these journals usually sign away all of their rights. Some authors will provide a copy but do so at their peril. Others understandably refuse. It is of course possible for an author to ask for permission from the new rights-owner to provide a free copy to someone, or for an academic to request a free copy directly from the new rights-owner. I wish them luck.

Last edited by darryl; 01-09-2018 at 11:36 PM.
darryl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 12:33 AM   #50
Abzeronow
Enthusiast
Abzeronow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Abzeronow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Abzeronow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Abzeronow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Abzeronow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Abzeronow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Abzeronow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Abzeronow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Abzeronow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Abzeronow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Abzeronow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 49
Karma: 1011094
Join Date: Nov 2017
Device: Kindle Fire HE 8
A potentially interesting quote from a story that has me cautiously optimistic:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...xtension-push/

Quote:
And even some content creators aren't keen on ever-longer copyright terms. The Authors Guild, for example, "does not support extending the copyright term, especially since many of our members benefit from having access to a thriving and substantial public domain of older works," a Guild spokeswoman told Ars in an email. "If anything, we would likely support a rollback to a term of life-plus-50 if it were politically feasible.
Abzeronow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 05:19 PM   #51
pwalker8
Wizard
pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,586
Karma: 20153206
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Sony PRS-T2
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
Correct. The author has no rights to the article as all rights are signed over to the academic journal. Unlike quite a few other areas of publishing where rights are signed over for a limited time, academic articles tend to be signed over permanently.
Keep in mind that you are discussing contract law rather than copyright law. The author still holds the copyright on the article. I would not be shocked if someone finally takes them to court and wins. One of the criteria of a valid contract is it can not be one sided, both sides must get something. That is why you see the various court cases where some inventor sells an invention for a penance, then sues (and wins) when the invention makes the company he or she sold it to a fortune.
pwalker8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 07:16 PM   #52
Cinisajoy
Just a Yellow Smiley.
Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cinisajoy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Cinisajoy's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,162
Karma: 83811071
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texas
Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwalker8 View Post
Keep in mind that you are discussing contract law rather than copyright law. The author still holds the copyright on the article. I would not be shocked if someone finally takes them to court and wins. One of the criteria of a valid contract is it can not be one sided, both sides must get something. That is why you see the various court cases where some inventor sells an invention for a penance, then sues (and wins) when the invention makes the company he or she sold it to a fortune.
I hate arguing with you, but the last time I submitted a story for publication, it was clearly stated that Reiman Publications now owned all rights to that story.
Cinisajoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 07:43 PM   #53
darryl
Wizard
darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
darryl's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,493
Karma: 40356996
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Oasis, Huwei Ascend Mate 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwalker8 View Post
Keep in mind that you are discussing contract law rather than copyright law. The author still holds the copyright on the article. I would not be shocked if someone finally takes them to court and wins. One of the criteria of a valid contract is it can not be one sided, both sides must get something. That is why you see the various court cases where some inventor sells an invention for a penance, then sues (and wins) when the invention makes the company he or she sold it to a fortune.
The contracts concerned can assign all of the author's rights in the copyright or grant a license amongst other things. If you sell your house there will be a contract governing the terms of the sale. To distinguish between copyright law and the relevant contract dealing with it is just as useful as the distinction between real property law and the contract to sell your house. That is, not very useful at all unless you are framing a lawsuit. And, of course, the new "rights holder" or licensee can enforce their rights against third parties pursuant to copyright law, Against the author they can enforce using contract law or, in the case of an appropriate assignment or licence, copyright law.

Sometimes an inventor sells something which later proves to be very valuable for a pittance (for which the inventor perhaps later does penance) and then later wins a lawsuit, usually when fraud or some type of colourable conduct is involved. Mostly they lose such cases. Laws governing unfair contracts and unconscionable conduct vary widely among those jurisdictions that have them, and are usually creatures of statute designed to remedy the harshness of the common law. I don't have the knowledge to comment on civil law jurisdictions.

Finally, many different journals have different policies. Some journals have relaxed their policies to some extent since those policies have been exposed to the light of day. I will of course refrain from speculating here as to how such policies were so exposed or even commenting on whether this was a good thing.
darryl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2018, 06:00 AM   #54
John F
Wizard
John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,999
Karma: 25368868
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Kobo Glo HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwalker8 View Post
Keep in mind that you are discussing contract law rather than copyright law. The author still holds the copyright on the article. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinisajoy View Post
I hate arguing with you, but the last time I submitted a story for publication, it was clearly stated that Reiman Publications now owned all rights to that story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darryl View Post
The contracts concerned can assign all of the author's rights in the copyright or grant a license amongst other things. ...
I assumed that in some cases, copyright is/can be transferred from one entity to another entity.

Are you saying this can't be done?
John F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2018, 06:36 AM   #55
darryl
Wizard
darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.darryl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
darryl's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,493
Karma: 40356996
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Oasis, Huwei Ascend Mate 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by John F View Post
I assumed that in some cases, copyright is/can be transferred from one entity to another entity.

Are you saying this can't be done?
No. Of course it can be done and often is. Usually there will be a contract providing for a transfer or assignment.
darryl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2018, 07:13 AM   #56
pdurrant
The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 54,769
Karma: 206028370
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: Kindle Voyage, Yotaphone 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by John F View Post
I assumed that in some cases, copyright is/can be transferred from one entity to another entity.

Are you saying this can't be done?
It's not possible to transfer copyright so that the copyright length changes. It is possible to transfer all rights to do with the copyright.

It's also possible to have a contract so that the copyright in newly created things belongs to another entity than the creator from the start - most employment contacts have this, so that intellectual property created by an employee belongs to the company employing them.
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2018, 07:21 AM   #57
John F
Wizard
John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,999
Karma: 25368868
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Kobo Glo HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by darryl View Post
No. Of course it can be done and often is. Usually there will be a contract providing for a transfer or assignment.
Thank you. This makes sense to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
... It is possible to transfer all rights to do with the copyright.

...
My question is: beside all the rights associated with the copyright, is the copyright itself transferred?
John F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2018, 10:55 AM   #58
pdurrant
The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 54,769
Karma: 206028370
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: Kindle Voyage, Yotaphone 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by John F View Post
My question is: beside all the rights associated with the copyright, is the copyright itself transferred?
Since copyright is entirely a legal construct of rights, is hard to see what else might be transferred. The copyright is the rights.

Except, as I said, you can't extend copyright on something by transferring the copyright to a younger person.
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2018, 01:57 PM   #59
barryem
Wizard
barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.barryem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
barryem's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,773
Karma: 35482144
Join Date: Oct 2012
Device: Paperwhite 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by darryl View Post
Sometimes an inventor sells something which later proves to be very valuable for a pittance (for which the inventor perhaps later does penance) and then later wins a lawsuit, usually when fraud or some type of colourable conduct is involved. Mostly they lose such cases.
My sister's father in law, decades ago, had some property on which there was a lot of white stone. His best friend offered to lease it from him for a small sum, I think $18 a year if I remember the story correctly. The then began minging white gravel, a unique stuff that has been sold all over the USA at high prices in garden shops and such, making his friend millions.

He wanted to re-negotiate but the friend wasn't interested so he took him to court; and lost! The judge said the law says each side has to get something but it doesn't say how much and contract law doesn't prevent someone from making a bad deal. He appealed and he lost again.

Barry
barryem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2018, 09:31 PM   #60
pwalker8
Wizard
pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,586
Karma: 20153206
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Sony PRS-T2
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
It's not possible to transfer copyright so that the copyright length changes. It is possible to transfer all rights to do with the copyright.

It's also possible to have a contract so that the copyright in newly created things belongs to another entity than the creator from the start - most employment contacts have this, so that intellectual property created by an employee belongs to the company employing them.
If the work is for hire, then the author doesn't own the copyright. Quite a few franchise books are works for hire. Copyright is a legal construct between the author and the government. Just look at the inside cover of a book and see who is listed as the copyright holder. The copyright holder can enter into a contract that gives exclusive license to someone else, but the author is still the copyright holder. Copyright law and contract law are two different legal traditions and different rules apply.

For example, at one time in the US, the author had to do certain things to obtain the copyright and to extend the copyright period. If he didn't, then the work went into public domain, regardless of what the contract said. The contract holder could not extend the copyright, only the copyright holder could.

The difference isn't obvious, but it's a difference.
pwalker8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Modern day WW3 books? Ckinsey88 Reading Recommendations 7 11-30-2012 01:08 AM
Alexandria, VA Library Now Lending eBooks MickeyC Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) 2 07-05-2011 01:14 AM
Ancient Library of Alexandria discovered? Alexander Turcic Lounge 0 05-13-2004 08:06 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:36 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.