Some suggestions for Software Updates - Page 4

Bob Russell · 10-12-2006, 04:09 PM

Sounds like the same thing to me, Slava. You definitely deserve all the credit... you just needed a little "marketing" so people could realize how important that observation was!

NatCh · 10-12-2006, 04:11 PM

So, what do you suppose our commission on that Marketing should come to, Bob? 10% of the proceeds?

bingle · 10-12-2006, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatCh

A note to those asking for text searching: You can do text searching in the Connect software. You cannot, on the other hand, enter any text to search for on the Reader itself, as it lacks any sort of text input mechanism.

Just wanted to make sure y'all are thinking about that, because given that singular lack, I just don't think that text searching on the Reader is something that it would be wise to hold your breath on.

Well, Sony is quite good at on-screen, virtual keyboards. You could, theoretically, have a software keyboard that uses the joystick to select different letters. However, it would be a pain to use, especially with the refresh rate of e-ink. I think we're better off with no on-device search.

airlik · 10-12-2006, 05:15 PM

I realize there's no text input mechanism, and there's no touch screen, for entering text to search for... but I'd thought of that and don't see it as a hindrance. My TV and TivO lack a keyboard, and yet I search for shows by text in the title all the time... cursor around an alphabet and hit "enter". It might be a bit cumbersome, but I think it's valuable. I have a large .txt library on my PC, and can grep it for text pretty easily there... just thinking of other applications - like say you're on the road and you have your tour guide in your reader... and you KNOW there's a famous fountain here somewhere... so you search for "fountain" and blip through hits on fountain until you find it. (Just a quick example... no need to point out that searching your Rome guidebook for "fountain" would generate a couple of hits per page, heh)

Bob Russell · 10-12-2006, 05:47 PM

How about this for a far out idea.. Maybe eventually these things could even have an accessory that includes a keyboard and auxiliary LCD screen. Or even better, how about a bluetooth connection to a UMPC or Treo for control and input! Not tomorrow, though!

hkabir · 10-12-2006, 09:08 PM

What I want in the next firmware upgrade:

1. Unicode font support / ability to add font
2. Text search
3. Dictionary support
4. some sort of input support

NatCh · 10-13-2006, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hkabir

4. some sort of input support

Now you're getting the idea!

hkabir · 10-13-2006, 05:51 AM

I forgot to add one more to be added in the next firmware upgrade:

HTML support

I think that is also very fundamental these days. It's also wrong to ignore html support in the internet era. It shouldn't be that difficult to accomodate it. Probably Librie has that support. Why not Reader?

igorsk · 10-13-2006, 07:53 AM

Librie doesn't support anything except BBeB (LRF). Well, it also supports BBeB dictionaries (MSD), however those are not much use on Reader as it has no input.

NatCh · 10-13-2006, 11:26 AM

I thought Librie' did TXT too. No?

BobVA · 10-14-2006, 10:20 AM

I was thinking about how to implement search on the existing hardware. If you limited the options (case insensitive, only 100 selectable characters) you could just put up a 10x10 table of characters on the screen, then have the user select letters/symbols with two numeric key pushes for each letter (e.g. 11 for "a", 12 for "b", etc).

Aligning the table columns with the physical number buttons might make it easier to "type", as you'd be able to select the first digit pretty quickly.

A couple of "quick input" grids might be an interesting option. Like:
- Align the columns of a 5x5 grid on buttons 1-5 and then connect the right ends of the rows with bold lines to the 6-0 keys. Then you'd just have to follow two strong visual cues to the right buttons. Of course you'd only get 25 symbols so "Q" would have to get tossed out (like the old phone dials).
- A "numbers only" mode that inputted them immediately when pressed.

Not particularly elegant, but it wouldn't require any new hardware, would minimize screen updates and would support elemental search capability.

Bob Russell · 10-14-2006, 10:35 AM

Very clever idea. I'd like it (assuming the display could keep up). But I think the general reading public might balk at the complexity, even though cell phones and pdas are increasing their tolerance for unusual text input methods.

BobVA · 10-14-2006, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

Very clever idea. I'd like it (assuming the display could keep up). But I think the general reading public might balk at the complexity, even though cell phones and pdas are increasing their tolerance for unusual text input methods.

Yep - I think keeping the hardware and UI as simple and unscary as possible figured heavily in the Sony design. That's my guess as to what drove the "upgrades" from the Libre, like a flat file system, no keyboard, etc.

If you consider Joe Novel Reader - who buys his content from the Connect store - as your target customer that's probably a pretty good call. I've never wanted to search a Tom Clancy novel, for example. Bookmarks are pretty much all I need in that environment.

Same thing with a folder based directory. I imagine the predicted number of "where did my book go?" help line calls was what killed that idea off. Who "needs" to carry more than a dozen novels around at once?

I'm hoping Sony will tacitly support us nerds with something like optional folders (e.g. we've got to explictly create them ourselves, but the reader will then support them) and some kind of primative search feature that you can find if you want it.

Cheers,
Bob

NatCh · 10-14-2006, 02:52 PM

You don't have to use sub-dirs just 'cause they're there.

Kaitou Ace · 10-15-2006, 12:55 AM

Some good news!
I was at the Digital Life show at the Javits in NYC tonight, and I managed to talk to the product manager of the reader. He said that they are actually working on a hierarchal listing in a firmware upgrade. There should also be some more interesting developer tools for creating the BBeB format sometime in the near future, as well as a few more interesting things. They do read this forum it seems, so yay.

I have to say I am really looking forward to a firmware update.

10-14-2006, 10:20 AM	#56
BobVA Addict Posts: 230 Karma: 1500 Join Date: Oct 2006 Device: Kobo Clara, Sony PRS950, T1, T2, T3	I was thinking about how to implement search on the existing hardware. If you limited the options (case insensitive, only 100 selectable characters) you could just put up a 10x10 table of characters on the screen, then have the user select letters/symbols with two numeric key pushes for each letter (e.g. 11 for "a", 12 for "b", etc). Aligning the table columns with the physical number buttons might make it easier to "type", as you'd be able to select the first digit pretty quickly. A couple of "quick input" grids might be an interesting option. Like: - Align the columns of a 5x5 grid on buttons 1-5 and then connect the right ends of the rows with bold lines to the 6-0 keys. Then you'd just have to follow two strong visual cues to the right buttons. Of course you'd only get 25 symbols so "Q" would have to get tossed out (like the old phone dials). - A "numbers only" mode that inputted them immediately when pressed. Not particularly elegant, but it wouldn't require any new hardware, would minimize screen updates and would support elemental search capability. Last edited by BobVA; 10-14-2006 at 10:34 AM.

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10-12-2006, 04:09 PM	#46
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Sounds like the same thing to me, Slava. You definitely deserve all the credit... you just needed a little "marketing" so people could realize how important that observation was!

10-12-2006, 04:11 PM	#47
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	So, what do you suppose our commission on that Marketing should come to, Bob? 10% of the proceeds?

10-12-2006, 05:15 PM	#49
airlik Connoisseur Posts: 76 Karma: 15 Join Date: Oct 2006 Device: Sony Reader	I realize there's no text input mechanism, and there's no touch screen, for entering text to search for... but I'd thought of that and don't see it as a hindrance. My TV and TivO lack a keyboard, and yet I search for shows by text in the title all the time... cursor around an alphabet and hit "enter". It might be a bit cumbersome, but I think it's valuable. I have a large .txt library on my PC, and can grep it for text pretty easily there... just thinking of other applications - like say you're on the road and you have your tour guide in your reader... and you KNOW there's a famous fountain here somewhere... so you search for "fountain" and blip through hits on fountain until you find it. (Just a quick example... no need to point out that searching your Rome guidebook for "fountain" would generate a couple of hits per page, heh)

10-12-2006, 05:47 PM	#50
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	How about this for a far out idea.. Maybe eventually these things could even have an accessory that includes a keyboard and auxiliary LCD screen. Or even better, how about a bluetooth connection to a UMPC or Treo for control and input! Not tomorrow, though!

10-12-2006, 09:08 PM	#51
hkabir e-bookviner Posts: 56 Karma: 10 Join Date: Aug 2006 Device: Sony PRS-505, iPodTouch	What I want in the next firmware upgrade: 1. Unicode font support / ability to add font 2. Text search 3. Dictionary support 4. some sort of input support

10-13-2006, 05:51 AM	#53
hkabir e-bookviner Posts: 56 Karma: 10 Join Date: Aug 2006 Device: Sony PRS-505, iPodTouch	I forgot to add one more to be added in the next firmware upgrade: HTML support I think that is also very fundamental these days. It's also wrong to ignore html support in the internet era. It shouldn't be that difficult to accomodate it. Probably Librie has that support. Why not Reader?

10-13-2006, 07:53 AM	#54
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	Librie doesn't support anything except BBeB (LRF). Well, it also supports BBeB dictionaries (MSD), however those are not much use on Reader as it has no input.

10-13-2006, 11:26 AM	#55
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	I thought Librie' did TXT too. No?

10-14-2006, 10:35 AM	#57
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Very clever idea. I'd like it (assuming the display could keep up). But I think the general reading public might balk at the complexity, even though cell phones and pdas are increasing their tolerance for unusual text input methods.

10-14-2006, 02:52 PM	#59
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	You don't have to use sub-dirs just 'cause they're there.

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10-15-2006, 12:55 AM	#60
Kaitou Ace Zealot Posts: 126 Karma: 1352743 Join Date: Oct 2002	Some good news! I was at the Digital Life show at the Javits in NYC tonight, and I managed to talk to the product manager of the reader. He said that they are actually working on a hierarchal listing in a firmware upgrade. There should also be some more interesting developer tools for creating the BBeB format sometime in the near future, as well as a few more interesting things. They do read this forum it seems, so yay. I have to say I am really looking forward to a firmware update.