Borrowed Library book that has a "no DRM statement"

[Tomk2]

Originally Posted by BookCat

This reminds me of a lively thread I inadvertently started on a techie forum when I bought my first laptop - I think it was 2005. Back then I lived in a high-density student area; instead of getting my own internet provider I piggy-backed on a student broadband. The one I chose changed according to the strength of the signal - most were unsecured.

I wanted to know if this was illegal; I knew it was immoral. The ensuing discussion focussed on ethics and became unnecessarily uncompromising.

Reminds me of the time my wife found a cable going over to the neighbors house from our house. Neighbors wife got mad at him and cancelled the TV cable. So he connected to mine without asking. I laughed so hard! Then my wife went and told her.... then I felt sorry for the guy being screamed at. He wanted his sports channels but didnt want to fix things with the wife.

But yes, this was the first library borrow I have read that had the "no DRM you can make a personal copy "statement. It surprised me.

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[haertig]

Originally Posted by jhowell

It is a complicated issue. See Not So Fine with Library Fines? A Look at the Overdue Debate for some reasons why this is popular now.

That article brought up some horsecr*p arguments IMHO.

"Why go fine-free? More and more library professionals contend that charging overdue fines undermines the mission of libraries to provide free and equitable access to information so that all citizens may educate themselves."

The supposed library mission of providing access to all is totally undermined when one patron is allowed to take and keep whatever they want for an indefinite period of time without repercussion. But that's evidently the way libraries want it these days.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. If the OP needs to keep a book longer than the loan period to finish it, don't break your digital book agreement with the library. Get the physical book instead and just keep it until you are done, years if need be. Might as well do what the library is advocating.

[Tomk2]

Originally Posted by haertig

That article brought up some horsecr*p arguments IMHO.







The supposed library mission of providing access to all is totally undermined when one patron is allowed to take and keep whatever they want for an indefinite period of time without repercussion. But that's evidently the way libraries want it these days.



Anyway, back to the topic at hand. If the OP needs to keep a book longer than the loan period to finish it, don't break your digital book agreement with the library. Get the physical book instead and just keep it until you are done, years if need be. Might as well do what the library is advocating.

I think I forgot where the library is, and how to use the ancient analog technology. LOL.

Actually, when I was last in the library they were proudly announcing that late fees were being discontinued. Makes the auto return of ebooks seem descriminatory

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[BookCat]

The "no fines" policy is madness; I don't think it's the case in the UK (though I haven't used a library for years).

I do, however, remember that about twenty years ago my then local library declared a week's amnesty for overdue books. This allowed me to return a book which was about a year overdue without fear of the massive fine.

Anyone read "Computers Don't Argue,"? This discussion is reminding me of that.

[ekbell]

Having read ebooks which have provided information on the type of paper they've been printed on , I wouldn't consider DRM free status as relevant information.

I think that asking patrons to fund the replacement of materials they've lost (or failed to return) or lose borrowing privileges is a generally reasonable policy although it does make sense to provide options for those who can't afford to replace the items. One possibility would be to have the loss of borrowing privileges be for a set term rather then indefinitely along with providing various ways to work off the fine.

Fines for failing to return items on time is something that can be debated although I think that if there are no fines there should be tighter borrowing limits to provide some incentive to return books in a timely fashion.

[SleepyBob]

Originally Posted by BookCat

The "no fines" policy is madness; I don't think it's the case in the UK (though I haven't used a library for years).

I do, however, remember that about twenty years ago my then local library declared a week's amnesty for overdue books. This allowed me to return a book which was about a year overdue without fear of the massive fine.

Anyone read "Computers Don't Argue,"? This discussion is reminding me of that.

I don't know if it is in the above article, but one library that implemented a no fine policy had discovered that people in the poorer areas had 50% more late fines than in other areas. And because a $10 fine was a financial hardship for those people, they would stop going to the library, AND never return the overdue books. And these are people who don't have other access to a wide range of books and other library services. When they stopped the fine policy, usage went up, and late returns went down.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rem736

i was first surprised to find that some library loans go out without DRM.
but when i thought about these titles (they were from emily dickenson and ralph waldo emersion), i thought it could be that they are already in the public domain.

is this not why they go out without DRM?

Some go out without DRM because the publisher does not want DRM and these are books still under copyright.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by haertig

If you want to keep a library book past the due date, just check out a physical copy. All the libraries around here have instituted a "no fines" policy. I see no reason for them to have done that, except to encourage people to ignore due dates. I hate this new policy BTW, but that is what they have implemented. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why.

That is very stupid. It means you may end up waiting a lot longer to get something. paid my fines and gladly. I know it was my mistake. The last time I was let off from paying the fine was when I sent my wife to return stuff for me because I was sick. If you were a regular, they were good about that. But under normal circumstances, it's my fault, my fine and I'll pay. It also means I'll try to return on time. I can see a lot of people not returning on time because they won't have a fine.

The other problem with no fines is that these libraries will have less money. Libraries use that money as part of the operating capitol.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Some go out without DRM because the publisher does not want DRM and these are books still under copyright.

Indeed DRM is NOTHING to do with copyright. You can have content that's actually Public Domain and it has DRM.

Many copyright works have no DRM.

[BookCat]

Originally Posted by SleepyBob

I don't know if it is in the above article, but one library that implemented a no fine policy had discovered that people in the poorer areas had 50% more late fines than in other areas. And because a $10 fine was a financial hardship for those people, they would stop going to the library, AND never return the overdue books. And these are people who don't have other access to a wide range of books and other library services. When they stopped the fine policy, usage went up, and late returns went down.

The 'article' is a short story. Here's the link to a web page which is a little hard to read. You can download a text version from Scribd.

https://www.atariarchives.org/bcc2/s...e.php?page=133

[haertig]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

That is very stupid.

I don't know if that comment was directed at me, or at the library policy of "no fines".

But just to make things clear, I was not actually advocating keeping library books past their expiration date. I was sarcastically making fun of a library policy that I strongly disagree with. Sarcasm is saying the opposite of the message you are trying to get across, but it does not always translate well into a typed post like here on the forums. You often need voice inflection and facial expressions to get across that it is indeed sarcasm - things that are missing in an online forum.