iPad ComicBookLover for iPad

[Daddy Warpig]

Originally Posted by athlonkmf

The "iPad way" or "Apple Way" is still very much a guideline, and not a law to live by.

That's fine, I never said it was. I said exactly the opposite: compelling reasons justify doing things differently. Plants vs. Zombies is one of those situations.

But just because other apps have good reasons to do things differently, doesn't mean ComicZeal does. In this case, with this feature, it doesn't. This aspect of the program is flawed, poorly conceived and executed.

[athlonkmf]

Originally Posted by Daddy Warpig

That's fine, I never said it was. I said exactly the opposite: compelling reasons justify doing things differently. Plants vs. Zombies is one of those situations.

But just because other apps have good reasons to do things differently, doesn't mean ComicZeal does. In this case, with this feature, it doesn't. This aspect of the program is flawed, poorly conceived and executed.

Still, a single aspect which is flawed according to you, doesn't mean the whole app is flawed.
One could say the same about iPad's limited RAM-memory, or maybe the more publically known lack of flash support. These "flaws" does not make the iPad useless. In the contrary, it does what it needs to do in the most splendid way money could buy at this moment.

As for a compelling reason for the way cz allows you to manage files, it's to eliminate one or two necessary taps. Otherwise, it'd have to do the good reader way. The other option, drag and drop... Well, I certainly wouldn't want to do that for a dozen of files....

Also, I must say it again, at least cz ALLOWS you to organize files. Your beloved cloudreaders doesn't

[Daddy Warpig]

Originally Posted by emolina

Please consider the case where you have six screen-fulls of comics arranged alphabetically. You want to move your ten issues of 'Zebra tales' into a folder named 'Africa'.

I take your point, and I'm not saying "you're wrong", what I will say is that ComicZeal could have done a much better job of implementing just that feature, even within its current interface:

Tap edit. Tap each of the issues you want to move. Drag them onto another issue to form a "long box" or drag them onto an existing collection. The issues move.

Simple. Easy. Direct. Consonant with other programs, and hence obvious.

ComicZeal even does something similar, but kludged: tap popover to see the collection, tap edit, tap many issues, tap move, new popover, select what you want, tap save, tap done, close popover.

Convoluted, indirect, idiosyncratic, not easily discoverable. All strong reasons not to do it this way.

The issue management features of ComicZeal are badly designed. "Move to rename" is another example, as is hiding all of the content (issues and collections) in a popover (wasting good cover art, which the iPad could display beautifully). There are just better ways of doing these things.

[Daddy Warpig]

Originally Posted by athlonkmf

Still, a single aspect which is flawed according to you, doesn't mean the whole app is flawed.

I never said that ALL of ComicZeal was bad or that CloudReaders was perfect. In fact, in my first post, I criticized both programs, and for exactly the same reason:

Originally Posted by Daddy Warpig

Both readers suffer badly from "must think like the programmer" syndrome: in order to use the program, forget thinking like a normal person. Instead, you have to think exactly like the programmer.

This isn't a "CloudReaders Awesome, ComicZeal FAIL" situation: both readers have good features and bad ones. I was just pointing out some bad ones, of both readers.

[emolina]

Originally Posted by Daddy Warpig

Tap edit. Tap each of the issues you want to move. Drag them onto another issue to form a "long box" or drag them onto an existing collection. The issues move.

Simple. Easy. Direct. Consonant with other programs, and hence obvious.
.

How would you make a new 'long box'?

[Daddy Warpig]

Originally Posted by emolina

How would you make a new 'long box'?

Assume a grid, either something like the current Zeal popover or an iBooks/Kindle app layout. It'd work the same way in both cases.

Single issues are icons, "long boxes" are icons and the two are interspersed but look different.

If you drag an issue/a group of issues onto a "long box," you want them to go "into" the box. It does so.

If you drag an issue/a group of issues onto a single issue, it forms a new "long box" and all the issues go into it. The "long box" is auto-named using the method ComicZeal already uses for auto-naming imported issues.

That's not the only way it could be done - I'm sure other people can come up with better ones - but it is a good way to do it. A better way to do it. IMHO, YMMV.

[emolina]

Originally Posted by Daddy Warpig

Tap edit. Tap each of the issues you want to move. Drag them onto another issue to form a "long box" or drag them onto an existing collection. The issues move.

How would the users know they can drag a whole bunch of selected comics that could be spread all over the list?


How would they know they can create a new box by dropping into an existing one? Although the iOS4 folders will help in education regarding this one.

If the comics are already in a drop-box then how do they get put into another drop box that's not visible at this level?

[Daddy Warpig]

Originally Posted by emolina

How would the users know they can drag a whole bunch of selected comics that could be spread all over the list?

The same way they do in the current CZ interface, which has the same challenge: Visual feedback.

Each "active" icon has some obvious visual difference, like a ghosting effect or shaking, and when you tap several icons all of them became active. Seeing this, the user thinks "All of these are selected, I can do something with all of them."

Originally Posted by emolina

How would they know they can create a new box

iOS 4, as you indicated, but an active guide, like GoodReader, that points out what can be done could also work.

Originally Posted by emolina

If the comics are already in a drop-box then how do they get put into another drop box that's not visible at this level?

Your questions are good ones, and are exactly the sort of questions that a programmer would need to address when creating a UI. I don't have an exact answer to this one, because I'm not trying to mock up an entire replacement interface (which would never get used, as I don't program CZ).

I'm just pointing out that the current method is convoluted and opaque (IMHO), and that a better method could be devised.

[emolina]

Originally Posted by Daddy Warpig

How do they know it now? You can, in the current CZ interface, but there is nothing obvious that indicates this.)

When the user presses edit the move and delete buttons come up greyed out, the edit button changes to 'done'. At that point there is nothing else for the user to do but press on a comic or press 'done'. Pressing 'done' ends edit mode (good), pressing a comic enables the move and delete button and puts the number 1 behind them. Now the user sees 'Delete (1)' and 'Move (1)' So now they know that they can select more than one comic, and obviously they know that pressing either one of those buttons would carry out the action.

Originally Posted by Daddy Warpig

iOS 4, as you indicated, but also an active guide, like GoodReader, that points out what can be done could also work.

Ah! you'd think so, but people don't pay attention to those. You'll find that none of the Apple apps have them either (and we don't want to talk about the Goodreader interface now do we?).

When people first buy an app all they want to do is use it, they ignore the guide. Once they're using it they never bring it up again. People don't even read the iTunes description and that's part of their 'handing over the cash' process.

Originally Posted by Daddy Warpig

Your questions are good ones, and are exactly the sort of questions that a programmer would need to address when creating a UI. Which I'm not doing.

No, but you were presenting very harsh criticism of the current interface while presenting an alternative that is unsuitable for the task.

The questions I've asked you are the same ones I ask myself every time I think 'Gee, it WOULD be nice to have an iBooks like interface, I should do it for the next update'. The answers are not easy to find though are they?

Myself and 50 beta testers have used 'programmer think' as well as 'user think' and every other kind of think we can come up with. The current user interface, could do with a polish but it's certainly well suited to the tasks it's asked to perform.

Thank you for your suggestions though, and should you wish to help develop the interface you are well on your way to specifying please feel free to start up a thread at http://comiczeal.tenderapp.com . I'd appreciate your input and promise it will be considered.

[Daddy Warpig]

Originally Posted by emolina

The questions I've asked you are the same ones I ask myself every time I think 'Gee, it WOULD be nice to have an iBooks like interface, I should do it for the next update'. The answers are not easy to find though are they?

I didn't know that you were the developer of CZ. Had I known, I would have phrased my objections differently. In specific, I would have taken the time to show some respect for your position as a developer, which respect you deserve.

Let me ameliorate the oversight:

I am not a programmer, but I know that designing a UI is a complex and imprecise endeavor - there is no perfect way to do it and all decisions involve balancing various competing needs. It's not easy, and any criticism offered should bear that in mind.

If I seemed to not realize this, or acknowledge it, I apologize. I meant no disrespect or contempt.

(Even so, I do find the current method unsuitable and un-iPad like. That is just my opinion, though and others disagree with me, so YMMV.)

Originally Posted by emolina

Thank you for your suggestions...I'd appreciate your input and promise it will be considered.

I appreciate your gracious reply, and I would like to apologize again for seeming to lack empathy or understanding of the difficulties you face. I'm not sure what I could contribute, but if I think of anything, I will keep your offer in mind.

[emolina]

You don't have anything to apologize for.

The interface for organizing comics is a tough nut to crack. It's going to get better soon but there are still a lot of things I'd like to do and still don't know how. I was very excited to have a play with 'Reeder' on the iPad, the interface is beautiful but it doesn't have organization functionality.

So seriously, always feel free to provide input, preferably at the site site I mentioned above so I can track requests better.

[kjk]

Originally Posted by emolina

You don't have anything to apologize for.

The interface for organizing comics is a tough nut to crack. It's going to get better soon but there are still a lot of things I'd like to do and still don't know how. I was very excited to have a play with 'Reeder' on the iPad, the interface is beautiful but it doesn't have organization functionality.

So seriously, always feel free to provide input, preferably at the site site I mentioned above so I can track requests better.

Hope you visit here too though!

[Daddy Warpig]

Originally Posted by emolina

If the comics are already in a drop-box then how do they get put into another drop box that's not visible at this level?

Here's a possible solution:

Once again, assume an iBooks-like layout. Icons in a grid, some of which are issues (full cover) and others are "long boxes" (cover w/ an overlay). I'll also assume that the library is only two levels deep: no nested long-boxes.

How to move "out" of a long-box?

When a user taps the box, to open it, it doesn't fill the screen entirely. The user can see the rest of their library around it but it is slightly dimmed, and is inactive. Tapping outside the border closes the box, but won't activate the icons in the library.

Edit, tap an issue (or more than one) to activate it, then begin to drag. When they do so, the "rest" of the library un-dims, becoming as bright as usual. This is a subtle visual cue: if you can see it, you can drag icons there.

The user drags towards the border, towards the "rest" of the library. When their finger crosses the border, the long box closes and the user sees their whole library.

The can lift their finger, and the issues join the library as a whole, or they can continue to drag towards another icon (to put it in another box or to create a box).

How would the user stumble across the functionality? The visual cues (dimming and un-dimming) are hints, subtle signs that the interface is working the way you'd assume: if you can see it, you can drag to it.

When the long-box is open, the library is dimmed: the user is "in" the box and even though they can see the library, it is "off": they can't click on one of those icons without closing the long-box.

But, when you click edit and begin to drag, the library lights up. It is "on", and the use can drag an issue towards it. Then the long box closes automatically (like spring-loaded folders on the Mac) and the user can drop the files or drag them to another place.

This method uses direct manipulation, it acts in a way a user can expect and experiment to discover, and it includes cues to help them do so.

Perfect? No. Could use fleshing out? Probably.

And only usability testing would show if it's workable. But it isn't a terrible idea.

[Daddy Warpig]

Originally Posted by emolina

How would they know they can create a new box by dropping into an existing one?

A solution I came up with today:

When the user is dragging an issue/a group of issues over another issue, a ghosted image of a long box appears. This indicates that a new box will be formed.

When they lift their finger, a new long box forms - named using CZ's current methods - and the issues go into the box.

This is discoverable, users will notice it anytime they are dragging. It suggests what will happen, in an obvious way. It is intriguing, and will piqué users' curiosity: "A long box appeared? What does that mean?" This encourages experimentation.

Again, probably not perfect and there are many details to implementing it, but it seems like an interesting interface.

[lilman]

To people using Cloudreader for cbz comics, you shoud give Stanza a try. Stanza, like Cloudreader, is free and has some nice features: import comics from Dropbox, email, or other apps that support file sharing, the coolest screen brightness control I've seen in any reader, better page turning and page layout, global in app screen rotation lock (saves between comics and closing/reopening the app), and others. The main drawback of Stanza for comics is zooming in is a little funky... you can't just pinch to zoom into any part of the image, you instead must first zoom on the center and then pan to the area you want.

ComicZeal is my favorite comic reader. It still has many areas for improvement (as do most apps) but I think it offers the best comic experience on the iPad. Unfortunately I am having problems with the latest release and had to switch to Stanza for now. Stanza's alright for comics but I sure do miss ComicZeal.