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Old 07-08-2021, 10:39 AM   #616
Obscured
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Elipsa and PDF annotation

The Elipsa officially states that it will not allow annotations with PDFs that have drm protection. I can certainly verify that, in fact I have been unable to annotate etc any PDFs. I have a variety of academic PDFs - freely available online - that are also not editable. I assume they are not DRMed but wouldn't know how to tell. I tried the Calibre plugin: "Apprentice Alf's DRM Removal Tool", but that didn't remove any DRM. It doesn't seem to have an option to work on an unspecified (non-Adobe) pdf.
I bought the Elipsa especially to use with PDFs and find this limitation very frustrating. Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 07-08-2021, 12:48 PM   #617
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Originally Posted by ersott View Post
Is possible read in two pages in landscape mode in kobo elipsa?

Formats epub or kepub

For me is very important this
Only epubs, at lowest minimum pitch, but looks fine, not ridiculously small like I'm told it is on smaller Kobos.
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Old 07-08-2021, 01:40 PM   #618
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Originally Posted by anacreon View Post
Only epubs, at lowest minimum pitch, but looks fine, not ridiculously small like I'm told it is on smaller Kobos.
:Gracias:
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Old 07-08-2021, 09:11 PM   #619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obscured View Post
The Elipsa officially states that it will not allow annotations with PDFs that have drm protection. I can certainly verify that, in fact I have been unable to annotate etc any PDFs. I have a variety of academic PDFs - freely available online - that are also not editable. I assume they are not DRMed but wouldn't know how to tell. I tried the Calibre plugin: "Apprentice Alf's DRM Removal Tool", but that didn't remove any DRM. It doesn't seem to have an option to work on an unspecified (non-Adobe) pdf.
I bought the Elipsa especially to use with PDFs and find this limitation very frustrating. Any help would be appreciated.
Check the security settings of the PDFs. One of them is for "Commenting". I think if that is not allowed, then the Elipsa will not allow annotations. Looking at my PDFs, I have one with this set to "Not allowed" and it does not allow adding comments in Acrobat Reader. I don't know if the DRM removal tools change this, or if there is an easy way to do it.

The DRM removal plugins should just remove any DRM from the formats they support when the book is added to calibre. I've seen some mention that the latest version can happen later. But, I haven't experimented to see. And, as I mentioned, I don't know if it touches the security settings.
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Old 07-08-2021, 10:22 PM   #620
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Quote:
The Elipsa officially states that it will not allow annotations with PDFs that have drm protection. I can certainly verify that, in fact I have been unable to annotate etc any PDFs. I have a variety of academic PDFs - freely available online - that are also not editable. I assume they are not DRMed but wouldn't know how to tell. I tried the Calibre plugin: "Apprentice Alf's DRM Removal Tool", but that didn't remove any DRM. It doesn't seem to have an option to work on an unspecified (non-Adobe) pdf.
I bought the Elipsa especially to use with PDFs and find this limitation very frustrating. Any help would be appreciated
I recently applied annotations to a lengthy, non-DRMed PDF which, I assumed, did not contain any security restrictions.

Last edited by Skydog; 07-08-2021 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 07-09-2021, 05:30 AM   #621
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From Kobo's website:
You'll find some differences when you're reading PDF books compared to regular books, including the option to read in landscape orientation, and to zoom in on the page.

Here are some things you can't do with a PDF book:

Select text
Add highlights
Look up words in the dictionary
Change the text size or style

And...add notes
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Old 07-09-2021, 05:32 AM   #622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
I recently applied annotations to a lengthy, non-DRMed PDF which, I assumed, did not contain any security restrictions.
Thanks for your reply. I'm assuming that when you say annotations you mean notes on the page not saved text notes?
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Old 07-09-2021, 05:37 AM   #623
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Smile Ordered and waiting to check it myself :)

I have ordered Elipsa and will get it end of July (Kobo is not available in Poland ).
If reading experience is good enough I will replace my Forma, if not, I will stick to old one and wait for new version of Forma.

I am driven by screen size, not by stylus related functionalities, but I don’t exclude possibility they will be a plus.
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Old 07-09-2021, 05:37 AM   #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
Check the security settings of the PDFs. One of them is for "Commenting". I think if that is not allowed, then the Elipsa will not allow annotations. Looking at my PDFs, I have one with this set to "Not allowed" and it does not allow adding comments in Acrobat Reader. I don't know if the DRM removal tools change this, or if there is an easy way to do it.

The DRM removal plugins should just remove any DRM from the formats they support when the book is added to calibre. I've seen some mention that the latest version can happen later. But, I haven't experimented to see. And, as I mentioned, I don't know if it touches the security settings.
Thanks for your reply.
I think that I have misunderstood Kobo's abilities re PDFs. It seems to be the case that only non-DRM PDFs will install, and then the editing is restricted to using the stylus to draw irregular lines and highlights. There is no proper note taking facility available. Crazy.
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Old 07-09-2021, 05:51 AM   #625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obscured View Post
From Kobo's website:
You'll find some differences when you're reading PDF books compared to regular books, including the option to read in landscape orientation, and to zoom in on the page.

Here are some things you can't do with a PDF book:

Select text
Add highlights
Look up words in the dictionary
Change the text size or style

And...add notes
And on https://help.kobo.com/hc/en-us/articles/1500001927562 it also says (with my emphasis):

Quote:
Supported file types

You can use your Kobo Stylus to write notes on these files:

Kobo ePub (.kepub)
ePub (.epub)
PDF (.pdf)
Note :Your Kobo Stylus cannot write notes on DRM-Protected PDF files and PDF files that disables annotations and markups.
Which is what I stated above. You need to look at the PDF you are reading and see if this is the case.
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Old 07-09-2021, 10:47 AM   #626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obscured View Post
From Kobo's website:
You'll find some differences when you're reading PDF books compared to regular books, including the option to read in landscape orientation, and to zoom in on the page.
Here are some things you can't do with a PDF book:
Select text
Add highlights
Look up words in the dictionary
Change the text size or style

And...add notes
I am very surprised. One of my most pleasant surprises reading PDFs on Elipsa was that with most good PDFs I COULD look up words in the dictionary.
and I will quote myself
Quote:
Originally Posted by anacreon View Post
Well, my experience with PDFs on Elipsa is mostly much more positive. But one thing to remember always, is GIGO - garbage in garbage out, and too many PDFs are outright garbage, particularly those massively digitalized by Google.
Also, before the advent of the 10.3" Kobo, the first thing I did with PDFs is cropping margins (I have Adobe Acrobat Pro) - which I did a bit too radically at the beginning which I now regret. The second is creating a TOC for that majority of PDFs which have none, or incomplete ones. And for decent otherwise PDFs we now have a perfectible but quite enjoyable way to read PDFs.
Thanks to the stylus, it is now easy to adjust the zoom level - which I found very difficult with my finger. I do hope geek1011 can patch this so we don't have to pan every new page.
And the fact I can now open dictionaries from a word is a big plus.
Kobo's way to deal with landscape reading is also a way around PDFs with ridiculously small pitch and/or pale fonts on grayish ground.
I'll give a few examples of "good" PDFs that open the dictionary window dictionaries when I press a word and the usual search drop-down list back/search in book/Wikipedia/Google:
* John Ashbery's "Where Shall I Wander"
* Ian Wood's "The Merovingian Kingdoms"
* "Le Gaffiot 2016 - Dictionnaire Latin Français"
and those searches do work.

"bad" PDFs
* Walter Benjamin's "Correspondence", a translation, one of those PDFs where someone scanned an open paperbook, so 2 pages per PDF page with the darkened center spine visible, which must be read in landscape mode
* "The Ashley Book of Knots", a heavily illustrated book but just photos of each page, well done, page by page, but not searcheable.
* Victor Hugo's "La Légende des Siècles", a typical Google scan, with missing pages here and there which I had to find elsewhere (and the Bodleian librarian I informed of this couldn't have cared less), but I was glad to have it since I couldn't find it anywhere else.

EDIT: I'm criticizing the libraries for allowing Google to do that, but the libraries don't have the means to do it properly, and at least we have sources, however imperfect, for books which would be totally inaccessible otherwise, and whatever I may feel about Google otherwise, I'm thankful for this.

Last edited by anacreon; 07-09-2021 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 07-09-2021, 05:06 PM   #627
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Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
You need to look at the PDF you are reading and see if this is the case.
I understand that people can be frustrated if they can't edit a document they had hoped to edit. The Elipsa isn't at fault if annotations have been blocked. Any complaints should be directed at the creator of the PDF in that case.

To get around that, Kobo would have to do a screenshot of the PDF for annotations and attach that to the PDF, but then that would be circumventing DRM, never mind the other logistical issues.


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Old 07-09-2021, 05:18 PM   #628
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I understand that people can be frustrated if they can't edit a document they had hoped to edit. The Elipsa isn't at fault if annotations have been blocked. Any complaints should be directed at the creator of the PDF in that case.

To get around that, Kobo would have to do a screenshot of the PDF for annotations and attach that to the PDF, but then that would be circumventing DRM, never mind the other logistical issues.
Well, I've been using Xodo on my computer and it has no problems with any PDFs.
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Old 07-09-2021, 09:56 PM   #629
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Well, I've been using Xodo on my computer and it has no problems with any PDFs.
Great. But, have you checked the security settings in the books? If they allow annotations, then there is a problem and you should report it to Kobo to fix. If they don't allow annotations, then it is working as designed. And maybe Xodo is cheating. Are the annotations you make using Xodo added to the PDF and viewable using other PDF viewers?

I get that you are frustrated by this. But, Kobo has clearly stated the limitations of annotating PDFs. You need to see if your books are match those rules and either fix the books, or tell Kobo so that they can fix the software.
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Old 07-10-2021, 04:24 AM   #630
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Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
Great. But, have you checked the security settings in the books? If they allow annotations, then there is a problem and you should report it to Kobo to fix. If they don't allow annotations, then it is working as designed. And maybe Xodo is cheating. Are the annotations you make using Xodo added to the PDF and viewable using other PDF viewers?
I've opened a PDF in Edge browser, it had previously been annotated on my computer using Xodo and subsequently on the Elipsa. Both sets of annotations are readable in Edge.
The Xodo ones are fully flexible with underlining in various colours, highlighting and proper saved notes. The Elipsa simply adds wonky highlighting and writing, none of which is integrated into the document itself.
Example: ugly dark marks made by my stylus, the others by Xodo.
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