What's with the Paranoia?

[issybird]

Originally Posted by i.am.stack

Thank God for Pirate Bay

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[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by gmw

Few people do ... until their identity is stolen from under them, or their privacy is otherwise abused.

How much chance is there of that happening, compared to the chance of getting robbed or broken in? I think infinitesimal. I don't know anyone who has ever had issues with their data or privacy. Absolutely no one.

[DiapDealer]

Yawn in 2020, and still a yawn in 2021.

[i.am.stack]

Originally Posted by David Munch

What data is that, and how do you see it misused? The information that the 3. Twilight book is your favorite and that you read it every year? Credit card information? Your name? That you own 2517 books?

I am genuinely curious.

Yes, I have had my credit card information stolen from a company that didn't secure its systems. Thus, I _never_ allow any website to store my credit card. It isn't hard to type in a few numbers and an address. It is a nice peace of mind knowing that it isn't easily stored in a database by a company that doesn't care to properly secure it.

But I'll give you two more examples.

A friend was having his first kid. As a prank I, with zero kids, bought an industrial sized box of diapers meant for large pre-schools from a well known store. Not only was I inundated with constant advertising from that company for years afterwards trying to sell me more baby junk, I started getting ads from other stores that should have not EVER known I had made that purchase. We went from near-zero advertisements for baby junk to multiple ads every day from multiple companies for the next several years in both my email and physical mailing address. WTF? Turns out, when you buy online from this store (the only way to get this industrial sized box of diapers) you agree to let them sell out all your purchases to many other companies. I will never do business with them again.

I was working for a company that had high security requirements (even though I didn't do anything that required that). I know for a fact that if you searched for various keywords on the internet for me, you got nothing. The closest was an address that I lived at for a single summer a LONG time ago, and even that was wrong. Then, the OPM hack.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office...nt_data_breach

My time with the military bit me hard core because I had to provide a full detailed record to OPM of every address and people I knew. No joke, two months after the hack my security-focused employer alerted me to it. Search those same keywords and EVERY address I lived at through my time with the military is now easily available (though none of my addresses after the military service are online). Birthday, social security, and family members are all fairly easy to find now despite multiple attempts to take it all down - the data pops up in other places. Even images of my freaking fingerprints were found on a government contractors site (unsecured!) a few months after that!

I was long gone from working with the military. There was no reason for them to keep that information. [explicated deleted] the OPM for collecting and storing that data. They had been warned multiple times of security issues and didn't take proper precautions. I happen to know some people who currently live at a past address - I know that within months of the OPA they started getting slammed with junk mail for me. Years later it is not uncommon for them to get more junk mail for me then anything addressed to them or "resident". And one summer they were getting threats meant for me though the police never figured out who or why.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

@i.am.stack do you know that you can very easily remove the DRM rom eBooks purchased from Kobo and then you'd be able full control?

I've had a Kobo account for about 8 years. I have never had a single problem with my data being misused or with Kobo sharing my data.

Heck, I've not even had a single issue with Amazon or Google.

The thing is, you are being paranoid. You have to give your data to some companies that are less secure then Kobo.

I could remove the DRM, but I'd rather support companies that don't use it. Congrats on not having issues with Amazon or Google. I have. Multiple times with Amazon. They are a horrific company.

And I'm not being paranoid. These companies continuously harvest data and use it to make a profit with no concern about how that data can harm the people they stole it from. AWS data breaches happen multiple times every year - the companies involved simply do not care about their consumers data. https://haveibeenpwned.com/ is proof of that.

I know they are going to collect data. I'm simply being cautious and diligent in knowing what I share and how much I share. That should be the consumers choice and it should not be an acceptable default that the company simply steals it.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

How much chance is there of that happening, compared to the chance of getting robbed or broken in? I think infinitesimal. I don't know anyone who has ever had issues with their data or privacy. Absolutely no one.

It's surprisingly common. Have I Been Pwned reports 10 data breaches on one of my emails. And see the "Who's been pwned" button for an enormous list.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

It's surprisingly common. Have I Been Pwned reports 10 data breaches on one of my emails. And see the "Who's been pwned" button for an enormous list.

Yes, I know that. My email has been on numerous such lists too. But have there been any real consequences? Aside from getting spam, of course.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

How much chance is there of that happening, compared to the chance of getting robbed or broken in? I think infinitesimal. I don't know anyone who has ever had issues with their data or privacy. Absolutely no one.

I don't have stats to compare the odds, but I do know a few of people that have experienced identity theft difficulties (personal or financial or both). And, for myself, I've had my credit card details used on multiple occasions (in two separate incidents some years apart) in circumstances that strongly suggest it occurred as the result of an online transaction rather than face-to-face - meaning the details were stolen, or sold, or given away from an online site. (It may even have been the same site both times if my suspicions are correct, but I have no proof and there are no matching reports of data theft in the databases I've checked.)

I guess only two incidents over a couple of decades isn't that big a deal, but I am very careful with where I use a credit card online so all I can really say is that if you have not seen such incidents then: lucky you.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

How much chance is there of that happening, compared to the chance of getting robbed or broken in? I think infinitesimal. I don't know anyone who has ever had issues with their data or privacy. Absolutely no one.

A little difficult to get an actual number, but doing a quick Google, Numbers like 1 in 15 to 1 in 3, for the U.S.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by John F

A little difficult to get an actual number, but doing a quick Google, Numbers like 1 in 15 to 1 in 3, for the U.S.

That's strange, because I really don't know anyone here who has had their identity or credit card number stolen, or otherwise suffered from an egregious privacy violation (other than social media trolling). I'm sure these people exist, but they must be few and far between here. Possibly it's something to do with the EU laws, which I think are stricter in that regard than in many other countries.

I mean I've lost my credit cards and documents physically. But online? Never. And I have used a credit card online for 25 years, at least.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

That's strange, because I really don't know anyone here who has had their identity or credit card number stolen, or otherwise suffered from an egregious privacy violation[...]

Not necessarily that strange. Aside from the known unreliability of individual anecdotal evidence, there could be various other explanations. As a geek with a long time interest in computer and other security, people sometimes approach me for help with this stuff, so I may well hear about more than the average. Plus people may be embarrassed at being caught out, so they don't necessary share their experience with everyone.

Your location could also play a part. I know that the first time my credit card details were taken it was the bank that notified me of the unexpected transactions, I think because of where they card details were used. So I imagine experienced thieves likely pay attention to such details using all those other private details available in the online sites that they steal from.

[crich70]

I think it's a bit insane. People worry about what's on their ereader and it being used to keep some sort of 'track' of them or something, but how many worry about what the apps on their cell phones may be telling others? Or the preferred customer cards that grocery stores provide for their customers. The barcode on those links to your account so that the store knows a lot about you if you think about it and for that matter the GPS in your car can also be used to see if you were anywhere near the scene of the crime (so to speak). With all that why worry about what a humble little ereader could be doing?

[crich70]

Originally Posted by gmw

Not necessarily that strange. Aside from the known unreliability of individual anecdotal evidence, there could be various other explanations. As a geek with a long time interest in computer and other security, people sometimes approach me for help with this stuff, so I may well hear about more than the average. Plus people may be embarrassed at being caught out, so they don't necessary share their experience with everyone.

Your location could also play a part. I know that the first time my credit card details were taken it was the bank that notified me of the unexpected transactions, I think because of where they card details were used. So I imagine experienced thieves likely pay attention to such details using all those other private details available in the online sites that they steal from.

I once had malware on a computer that I owned. It recorded my keystrokes and allowed thieves to try to access my bank account from half way round the world. I ended up having to change passwords, bank account #'s etc. I was lucky though in that the would be thieves didn't get a penny. My bank recognized that I didn't travel half way round the world and put a stop to the attempt.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

That's strange, because I really don't know anyone here who has had their identity or credit card number stolen, or otherwise suffered from an egregious privacy violation (other than social media trolling). I'm sure these people exist, but they must be few and far between here. Possibly it's something to do with the EU laws, which I think are stricter in that regard than in many other countries.

I mean I've lost my credit cards and documents physically. But online? Never. And I have used a credit card online for 25 years, at least.

See my post in posting # 432 above.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by crich70

See my post in posting # 432 above.

Malware has nothing to do with privacy. You can be a total paranoid and still get malware. Unless you don't use the internet at all.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by crich70

I think it's a bit insane. People worry about what's on their ereader and it being used to keep some sort of 'track' of them or something, but how many worry about what the apps on their cell phones may be telling others? Or the preferred customer cards that grocery stores provide for their customers. The barcode on those links to your account so that the store knows a lot about you if you think about it and for that matter the GPS in your car can also be used to see if you were anywhere near the scene of the crime (so to speak). With all that why worry about what a humble little ereader could be doing?

I agree that it would be somewhat irrational to worry about one and not the others. As I indicated in a post much earlier in the thread, I try to make a habit of minimal sharing (even/especially on my phone). eg: almost no site truly needs a date of birth, so don't ask me for it, and if you insist don't be surprised when I lie. Etc. etc. for all the myriad other things that many sites want to know out of a sort of habit/reflex rather than real need*.

* I'm in the business of building databases for businesses, so I know just how much crap some businesses store versus how little of it they actually need and use. I mean, at least when Google and Amazon take your data they will make active [ab]use of it, many smaller businesses just hoard it while waiting to be hacked.