Torn between Apple IPad and Onyx boox 9.7'' devices

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by gwynevans

Has anyone compared reading PDF's on the 12" iPad Pro vs the 10" one? Can't justify the price for either at the moment but intrigued how they might be for reading textbooks or similar?

Yes, I have (or have had) both.

[gwynevans]

Did you come to a conclusion regarding which you prefer, as I've seem a boost in this thread recommending the 10" one, and a post by you in another thread recommending the 12" one. Was the recommendation in this thread 'filtered' by the selections of the OP?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by gwynevans

Has anyone compared reading PDF's on the 12" iPad Pro vs the 10" one? Can't justify the price for either at the moment but intrigued how they might be for reading textbooks or similar?

Given that PDF works well on the 9.7" iPad, I would say it would be good on either model iPad Pro.

[gwynevans]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Given that PDF works well on the 9.7" iPad, I would say it would be good on either model iPad Pro.

Oddly enough, (see my device list in the sidebar,) I have experience of PDFs on the 9.7" iPad, which was why I was asking about experiences with the larger screen devices...

(I view the standard devices as acceptable rather than good, hence the question.)

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by gwynevans

Did you come to a conclusion regarding which you prefer, as I've seem a boost in this thread recommending the 10" one, and a post by you in another thread recommending the 12" one. Was the recommendation in this thread 'filtered' by the selections of the OP?

It very much depends on your needs. Both are excellent PDF readers. If you need to read document formatted for an A4 or Letter-sized page, there's no doubt that the 12.9" screen is better, because it allows you to read the page at pretty much its original size with no zooming or scrolling. However, the other side of the coin is that the 12.9" iPad is big - much bigger than the 9.7".

I went from the 9.7" to the 12.9", and then from the 12.9" to the 10.5" (I had all three at one point). Why? Because for me, the 10.5" is the ideal compromise between screen size and portability. Apple have shrunk the size of the bezel on the 10.5", so it's actually not much bigger than the 9.7", but the additional 0.8" of screen size really does make a considerable difference in readability.

[underscore]

I had an onyx m92 (9.7 inches), then i tried an i86 (8 inches), now i'm back to an onyx n96 (9.7).
The reason why i bought those devices instead of a smaller e-ink device is reading pdf.
I'm still quite happy about it for the use i do.
The computer related stuff i read (imagine books from O'Reilly) has usually wide margins, so a minimum of cropping eliminate the need of zooming the page and bring the software to just turning pages.
I don't annotate books.
As far as i read one book at a time, in a sequential way, it serve me great.
As a system administrator I work in front of lcd screens 8 hours a day so i won't say that tablets make my eyes burn or other exaggerations.
But once i just have to do sequential reading, maybe with a paper on one side and a computer screen nearby, i prefer to read on paper, and if not on paper on eink, and if not on eink on lcd.
Sometime i print in pdf just for sideloading reading articles from the computer to the ereader.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by underscore

As far as i read one book at a time, in a sequential way, it serve me great.
As a system administrator I work in front of lcd screens 8 hours a day so i won't say that tablets make my eyes burn or other exaggerations.
But once i just have to do sequential reading, maybe with a paper on one side and a computer screen nearby, i prefer to read on paper, and if not on paper on eink, and if not on eink on lcd.
Sometime i print in pdf just for sideloading reading articles from the computer to the ereader.

Yes, if you're reading one book at a time, with no annotation, devices like the Onyx are absolutely fine. It's in the areas of annotation and multi-document support that tablets really win out.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, if you're reading one book at a time, with no annotation, devices like the Onyx are absolutely fine. It's in the areas of annotation and multi-document support that tablets really win out.

And speed and zooming and color for color images and/or multi-color highlights.

[musicjunky]

Your thoughts on this subject are a big help to me. I'm returning my first Kindle purchase. Honestly don't get all the hype. To each his own. That's what makes us all different. My daughter loves hers. It was slow. Eye strain was terrible. I've read in my first 20 minutes on this forum people don't understand eye strain. It's real, I once had 20/21 vision. See my doctor regularly. I have eye astigmatism. Bleh light & apparently from erreaders & older E-ink. (New one on me). Let's face it. It's not natural for our eyes to be that close to that much light! If you are not bothered by this give yourself time! I will keep researching readers. You did remind on the number one constant in my life for the past 10 years. Apple products have not failed me yet. May not be in my budget. There is always Christmas. I will most definitely be doing my research. Your hobby is most interesting.

Originally Posted by tommyer

I want to read books and articles in EPUB and PDF on the device, highlighting and taking handwritten notes.

I think with pdfs not having to zoom or pan is nice, likewise it is nice to have the full pdf page displayed on the screen and letter size is still readable (although from what I saw on the IPad Pro it still can be pretty small, I would like to have it bigger). That's nice because you can mark a word in the first paragraph and one in the last and then connect them with a pen. Thus you can connect anything with everything other on the same page if you want to.

If you have to scroll and zoom slowly as in OB 9.7'' devices, you can't do such tasks so easily.

On the other hand, I find a little bit of zooming ok. Usually you do it only once for a document. I also do not have a problem with landscape modus for those pdfs which need it und I guess there will still be some of them around on the 9.7'' level. Drawback is you loose the overview of the document page which is something the brain does not like because it likes to see things for a while and it can more easily connect and think this way.

Then there are many people who are fine with doing heavy reading on the Ipad and say their eyes have no problem with it. This is so significant because the biggest point of the OB devices is the EPD, the paperlike reading, exactly for the eyes plus pdf handling.

I mean when I buy OB n96 for 325€ (provided I am lucky with tax & custom) it is more than at least 200€ cheaper than Ipad Pro 9.7'' and 300€ cheaper than IPad Pro 10.5''.

People who want to buy IPadPro worry about storage. CHeapest version of IPad Pro 10.5'' with 620€ has 64GB storage. But look at OB N96, it only has 16GB.

Again, I want to do reading & annotating pdfs on the wireless devices and I then will want to send them to my desktop pc to work with them further, for example in literature mangement software. So these devices are second ones, helping devices for pc work, no replacement intended.

So for this task alone I will not need so much storage neither in a OB nor in a IPad. But if you have an IPAD, you want to be open future or future-proof, may be one day you want to do photographing, music programming or making or collecting videos. Then more storage would be nice. Also the internet compatibility and speed in everything is very nice with the IPADs. But the prices go way up.

One could put it like this: Objectively EINK remains the best for the eyes. If you want to work with PDFs on E-Ink, Onyx Boox is best. But if you are okay with the second best solution for your eyes, then you go for the IPAD Pro because their screens and other features make for an acceptable reading experience except if you have very sensitive eyes. So the IPAD gives you the 2nd best solution for the eyes - many people seem to be not even aware that such lighting could strain their eyes - and in addition a host of other options and functionalities. Not to forget, probably very fast, accurate and useful apps to work with pdfs beating pdf-functionality of OB N96. But the host of additional options is related to storage. You will need more storage and at that point the price will rise steeply, also extra equipment. E.g. stylus is included in OB N96 for 325€ but not in IPad Pro 10.5 meaning 100€ extra.

Another problem is that a new generation of OB devices is announced for September. But who likes to wait and who knows what price they will come up with and if you aer lucky enough to get one.

The question with apple ipad pro 10.5'' is also, do I need all of that? Not really, but may be in the future, so it can be a nice to have. But if you want replace notebook or PC through IPAD, then prices go even further up because of the extras and my limits are reached. But why spending 650 to 750€ for a device that can't replace desktop pc or notebook? It must be very much better for eyesight than the others apart from being able to read on your lap etc to justify good laptop money for a tablet.

Originally Posted by tommyer

JSWolf and HarryT, Thank you very much for your opinions. It's much appreciated. HarryT, I value your take on the topic in particular because I gathered from your earlier posts and/or signature that you use the IPad in a profession/job comparable to that of an editor (in German 'Lektor'), someone who works in a publishing house and does the editing of books and articles before they will be printed including communication and suggestions to the author. It's a professional field I worked in myself. The point is you always have to read [although I read on paper first while working there, second step was to correct (proof-read), shorten or clarify the text on the (word, not pdf) document on the pc].

And that's what I am interested in. The opinions of people who spend a substantial part of the day reading and annotating, basically regardless if it's for work or not. Academics, authors, editors, engineers, programmers, journalists, 'private scholars'. Regardless of your profession it comes down to the activity of reading and working with pdfs a substantial time each day of the working week.

Firstly and fundamentally, what I really like to etablish here and hear your opinions on is whether you think the following is true:

"One could put it like this: Objectively EINK remains the best for the eyes. If you want to work with PDFs on E-Ink, Onyx Boox is best, if you want to go for the device that is best for your eyes. But if you are okay with the second best solution for your eyes, then you go for the IPAD Pro because their screens and other features make for an acceptable reading and, above all, working experience, except if you have very sensitive eyes. So the IPAD gives you the 2nd best solution for the eyes and the best solution for handling pdfs."

I think that the subject 'eyes' is to be treated separately from usability/functionality. What is the exact ranking in each of them? It is clear that in usability an IPad beats an OB E-Ink hands down. But do you not think that with regards to eye strain the OB E-Ink is the best solution for pdfs? (Plus it is cheaper than an IPad.)

I am sorry, if I get a bit obsessive about this, and I get it, if you, HarryT, say that the Ipad Pro is superb for reading pdfs knowing that you do not voice your opinion on the basis of a user profile who only now and then reads a scientific pdf or just handles his business correspondence (pdf) but reads and works with multi-page pdfs extensively many hours of many days of the week (also using scanned pdfs as I do as well).
I know as well that you respect the opinion opting for Eink in order to reduce unnecessary eye strain, even if pdfs are involved.

Caveat for all of these things is of course: YMMV Your Milage May Vary

If I buy an IpadPro 10.5' I think I will opt for the smallest storage because until now I have not done very much of photographing, video making & watching and music (on the PC). Since you can connect the IPad to the (Windows)PC, I would regularly send files no longer needed on the IPad to the PC. [Until the day that my reference management software works smoothly on the IPad, which would be excellent to import citations from a pdf document to the reference management software on the same (eye-friendly) device, if you want to]. I do not intend the Ipad to replace my desktop-PC, hence my decision for the lowest storage. Nonetheless, I would appreciate to hear any counterarguments on that. I know I take this subject over the top, but it also has a lot to do with my budget being rather tight.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by tommyer

My question is more specific. Are the screens of the IPad pro devices much superior to the average phone or computer screen with regards to eye strain? Furthermore, are they so much superior that they can almost or actually match Eink screens with regards to eye strain?

Personally, my LCD-monitor is rather old. But there is something, I guess is more common on LCD-devices, personally speaking, namely that I screw up or squint my eyes a little bit while reading or watching it from a close distance. I guess, that some kind of dazzling, because of the backlight, might be the reason. It's not dramatic, it's subtle. Then again, I should try to dim the backlight and see if I stop the little screwing of my eyes. Personally it is a distantly similar effect, if I want to look at something accurately and sharply without my glasses on ( I am shortsighted, but I can read and recognize easily letters in front of a monitor, tablet or reader without my glasses).

Hey shortsighted, as another shortsighted person, if you are getting dazzling, turn your light down. I practically live on my tablet. The light bar is about 2 millimeters if that from off. Also, put your glasses on. (I think I just channeled my mother from when i was a kid.) It makes reading so much easier.
Good luck.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by downeaster59

I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 8.0. The display would be similar in quality to the Tab S2 9.7. It's very nice for just about anything, including reading. But with the True Tone feature, I still give the iPad Pro (yes, even the 9.7) an edge in reading. But, as with all things, your results may vary!

I have the tab 4 and the tab A. Use them constantly.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by tommyer

That sums it up. I have no qualms to test such a device and send it back, if the seller is some giant like Google, Facebook or Amazon. If I didn't get it completely wrong, I can return the device without any problem. This way I save the money I would have paid with a leasing shop. But I get JSWolf's point.

I have 2 Samsung tablets that I love and they read pdfs just as well as Jon's iPad. The thing is to find an app that suits your needs.

Now yes, if you were using it like HarryT does, I would recommend the iPad pro.
For normal usage, Samsung and Apple both make excellent tablets. The big difference is the price.
Now I would not recommend the $100 RCA tablet they sell at Walmart. I do own one. The only redeeming feature is the case has a good size keyboard.
It is heavier than other 9 to 10 tablets without the case. Put it in the case and it weighs almost as much as a larger laptop. The software is not user friendly. App use is iffy. Older firmware. And so much bloatware not much memory left. I am pretty much going to turn it into a card catalog.

[HarryT]

I would urge caution. Amazon are not a "try before you buy" service, and they will close your account if you make a habit of buying and returning high-value items.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by tommyer

My question is more specific. Are the screens of the IPad pro devices much superior to the average phone or computer screen with regards to eye strain? Furthermore, are they so much superior that they can almost or actually match Eink screens with regards to eye strain?

Comparing reading on my Kobo Aura One, an iPad 9.7" screen and a Nexus tablet, for fiction the KA1 wins hands down -- the ability to read in bright light and the matte screen are winners for fiction. When it comes to PDF manuals and my laptop is not available, the iPad is my goto device with the Nexus tablet second. The faster CPU, more RAM, etc. makes using them reading PDFs especially when I have multiple PDFs open, a no brainer choice. OTOH, I've been stuck where I had to use the KA1 for PDFs and it was not pleasant but allowed me to finish my tasks.

Originally Posted by tommyer

Personally, my LCD-monitor is rather old. But there is something, I guess is more common on LCD-devices, personally speaking, namely that I screw up or squint my eyes a little bit while reading or watching it from a close distance. I guess, that some kind of dazzling, because of the backlight, might be the reason. It's not dramatic, it's subtle. Then again, I should try to dim the backlight and see if I stop the little screwing of my eyes. Personally it is a distantly similar effect, if I want to look at something accurately and sharply without my glasses on ( I am shortsighted, but I can read and recognize easily letters in front of a monitor, tablet or reader without my glasses).

I'm near sighted and my left and right eye have very different prescriptions so I have my progressives for normal wear and unifocal glasses for computer work. I find that watching TV from ~2.5 metres or my laptop screen from ~.7 metres doesn't bother my eyes but reading on my LCD tablets causes my eyes to start bothering me after ~1 hour or about 1/2 hour reading on my phone. In contrast, I read for several hours on my KA1 without my eyes bothering me. I don't think it is connected to brightness settings or refresh rates, both of which have been suggested.

[JSWolf]

You can get cheaper iPads via Groupon. I have seen the new iPad and recently, the iPad Air 2.