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Old 10-18-2021, 04:46 AM   #121
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I see the Sage as a conceit by Kobo that they are at the limit of e-reader technology, in terms of their ability to move the core competencies of an e-reader forward. It seems as though they're shifting strategies towards competing with tablets by making more versatile devices (stylus, audiobooks).

I'm wondering whether companies like Onyx and Boyue have taken a bigger bite out of the e-ink market than I would have guessed because the Sage seems like an answer to that segment of their competition.

I find it disappointing that this is the direction the market is moving, but unfortunately it seems like the screen tech is the bottleneck on innovation. It doesn't seem as though we're going to see the big leap like we did from Pearl to Carta and screen size is no longer an obvious move forward.
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Old 10-18-2021, 05:17 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by mezzanine View Post
I see the Sage as a conceit by Kobo that they are at the limit of e-reader technology, in terms of their ability to move the core competencies of an e-reader forward. It seems as though they're shifting strategies towards competing with tablets by making more versatile devices (stylus, audiobooks).

I don't know if it's a "concession", but if the core competency of an e-reader is to deliver sharp, clear readable text, then both major players pretty much have that covered. There hasn't been any major breakthrough in paperclip design for quite a while, since the existing forms work well.

The two features you single out as being intended to compete with tablets are both still very closely connected with reading - many, MANY users of ereaders enjoy taking notes as they read, and probably even more like audiobooks, so adding both of those makes economic sense. Especially since the major competitor has offered audiobook support for a long time - did you describe THAT as a "concession" by Amazon that "they are at the limit of e-reader technology"?
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Old 10-18-2021, 05:38 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Robin View Post
I don't know if it's a "concession", but if the core competency of an e-reader is to deliver sharp, clear readable text, then both major players pretty much have that covered. There hasn't been any major breakthrough in paperclip design for quite a while, since the existing forms work well.
If sufficiency was the determinative criteria, one could argue there wasn't any need for innovation beyond the original e-readers of ten years ago. The contrast ratio of e-ink readers is far below that of paper. If e-ink could double the contrast ratio of their screens, it would be a massive improvement to what you consider already sufficient.

Quote:
The two features you single out as being intended to compete with tablets are both still very closely connected with reading - many, MANY users of ereaders enjoy taking notes as they read, and probably even more like audiobooks, so adding both of those makes economic sense. Especially since the major competitor has offered audiobook support for a long time - did you describe THAT as a "concession" by Amazon that "they are at the limit of e-reader technology"?
The incorporation of audiobook support is superfluous to e-readers.
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Old 10-18-2021, 05:43 AM   #124
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The incorporation of audiobook support is superfluous to e-readers.
Personally, I agree - I've never yet listened to an entire audiobook in my L1 language.

But the fact is, there are MANY people who do not agree. Many MORE people do want the feature than don't it seems, and since Amazon and Rakuten Kobo both want as many customers as they can get, incorporating a feature that is highly popular and sought after makes commercial sense.
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Old 10-18-2021, 08:01 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Uncle Robin View Post
Personally, I agree - I've never yet listened to an entire audiobook in my L1 language.

But the fact is, there are MANY people who do not agree. ...
And it is a fact that there are MANY people who agree.

Quote:
... Many MORE people do want the feature than don't it seems, ...
It seems to me, that many more people don't want the feature, although it is hard to say if it is "don't want" or "don't need".

For example,

https://www.tonerbuzz.com/blog/paper...ks-statistics/

From other searches, audiobook revenue is more then ebook revenue, but since audiobook prices are nearly double that of ebooks, it appears as though many more ebooks are sold then audiobooks.
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Old 10-18-2021, 08:30 AM   #126
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If you ask people if they prefer paper or ebooks, many will tell you they prefer paper. The same people might still buy a Kindle with ebooks instead because of price, portability or storage reasons. Don't believe any statistic that you didn't fake yourself.
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Old 10-18-2021, 08:32 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by John F View Post
And it is a fact that there are MANY people who agree.


It seems to me, that many more people don't want the feature, although it is hard to say if it is "don't want" or "don't need".

For example,

https://www.tonerbuzz.com/blog/paper...ks-statistics/

From other searches, audiobook revenue is more then ebook revenue, but since audiobook prices are nearly double that of ebooks, it appears as though many more ebooks are sold then audiobooks.

Those of us who don't want audiobooks functionality don't have to use it even if is available. Those who do want it can't if it's not there. And many non-audiobook users have been very vocal here about wanting more storage, so even though that feature is likely targetting audiobook users primarily, it benefits others too. So adding the option does no harm to those who don't want it, while increasing the appeal of the device for those who do
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Old 10-18-2021, 08:50 AM   #128
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Quote:
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Those of us who don't want audiobooks functionality don't have to use it even if is available. Those who do want it can't if it's not there. And many non-audiobook users have been very vocal here about wanting more storage, so even though that feature is likely targetting audiobook users primarily, it benefits others too. So adding the option does no harm to those who don't want it, while increasing the appeal of the device for those who do
This applies to many features, like removable storage, mp3 playing capabilites, ...

I was quoting you because you said:

Quote:
... Many MORE people do want the feature than don't it seems, ...
I was wondering how you reached this opinion, when sales figures seem to contradict your statement.
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Old 10-18-2021, 08:53 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by mezzanine View Post
The incorporation of audiobook support is superfluous to e-readers.
Kobo wants to sell audiobooks. Don't over-think this. It's business.
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Old 10-18-2021, 09:05 AM   #130
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This applies to many features, like removable storage, mp3 playing capabilites, ...

I was quoting you because you said:



I was wondering how you reached this opinion, when sales figures seem to contradict your statement.

How do sales figures contradict my statement? I said "it seems", a clear indication that it was my impression, not a statement of empirical fact. And as Kobo has not released an audiobook capable device in at least the last 3 years, there are no sales data to contradict my impression either, any more than there are data to support it.

The fact that Kobo hasn't sold any audiobook capable devices likely has much more to do with the fact that they didn't make any than that such devices weren't popular.
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Old 10-18-2021, 10:15 AM   #131
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How do sales figures contradict my statement? I said "it seems", a clear indication that it was my impression, not a statement of empirical fact. And as Kobo has not released an audiobook capable device in at least the last 3 years, there are no sales data to contradict my impression either, any more than there are data to support it.

The fact that Kobo hasn't sold any audiobook capable devices likely has much more to do with the fact that they didn't make any than that such devices weren't popular.
I said how I came to my opinion, with actual sales figures. You came to an opinion based on your perception of "many" people asking for audio book support.

The link I provided was for audiobook sales, not audiobook device sales; I'm not sure why you bring device sales into this?

You said "many people", not "many MR people" or "many current ereader owners". Since you apparently referred to people in general, the sales figure, along with price of audiobooks vs ebooks, is a much stronger indication then your impression?

As anecdotal evidence, look at the forum for audiobooks on MR? How many posts in that section vs how many posts in other sections?

It is hard to argue with many, but many more seems like a poor impression.*

Many people have asked for audiobook support on MR. It seems to me that many more people have not asked for audiobook support on MR. Many people say that it is better to use your phone for audiobooks. Kobo has been selling audiobooks for many years.

*Of course, everyone is entitled to their impression.
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Old 10-18-2021, 10:50 AM   #132
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Most people read ebooks on phones or tablets, all of which can also run Audible (about 80%?) and other audio books.

A few people with eink ereaders don't have smartphones or tablets. But the people I know like that don't use audiobooks either. A smartphone is the the most convenient audio and audiobook player. Pocket mps/media players are now more niche than eink.

It doesn't hurt to include audio on eink if there isn't much extra cost. But it does cost more unless you make it Bluetooth only via a WiFi chip that has BT included.
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Old 10-18-2021, 11:05 AM   #133
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I’m pretty sure Kobo has all the sales figures they need and then some, they probably also have more user feedback than MR can offer up. When the Elipsa was only an FCC filing and we learned Bluetooth was added along with it being 32GB I thought it was a sure sign that audiobook support was being added given Kobos advertising of audiobooks.

That we’re seeing an audiobook capable ereader from them isn’t surprising, nor am I deterred by its addition since it won’t affect my usage of the Sage.

As John F said this is a business move, Kobo sells audiobooks, Kobo sells devices, makes sense they’d want to add support for audiobooks to those devices.
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Old 10-18-2021, 11:59 AM   #134
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The moral of the story - watch to the end

I got distracted by his mention of the price and paused the video to check the price in Euros against my local price. What's the best tool for removing egg from one's face?
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Old 10-18-2021, 12:01 PM   #135
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Unless there is a way to remove the DRM from Overdrive audiobooks, or they don't have DRM, I doubt that we will be able to sideload them. But, there will probably be a way to sideload audiobooks. That needs some experimenting when someone gets the devices. I am not sure if it will be officially supported, but, I'm pretty sure there will be a way.
Overdrive audiobooks are MP3 so DRM is not an issue.
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