Would you pay for new features? - Page 3

greeny · 07-14-2009, 02:07 AM

HI All, I think maybe a better solution all round would be to open up the firmware (ala Linux). There are lots of clever people out there that would be able to add all the features that are required. Bookeen could then "vet" the changes and if they are up to release standards then could release the firmware on "their" site.
I actually think charging for firmware updates would be a no go to be honest. I know Apple do it but only because they have excellent and innovative user devices (I have an ipod and hate the bloody thing!!) that the mass seem to like (or think they need!). I actually think Apple on the only ones that I have come across that actually charge for firmware updates!! They can possibly do that at the moment when they are considers market leaders. When the competition stiffens up (as it surely must) things may well turn out differently.

Just my thoughts and I love my Cybook :-)

HarryT · 07-15-2009, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greeny

I actually think Apple on the only ones that I have come across that actually charge for firmware updates!!

Another example is Compaq, who charge for major firmware updates to their iPaq Pocket PCs. And, of course, all GPS manufacturers charge for map updates, which is pretty similar kind of thing.

DDHarriman · 07-15-2009, 10:41 AM

Hi

I think the argument is not if a company should or should not charge for a thing… - upgraded firmware in this case -, as in this still, market society everyone can charge for anything.…

The question posed was, if I would pay for it, and my answer still is a big No!
And, if I would not get served in a way I think is acceptable… I just change to another company if needed.

More, in this case, my Cybook works perfectly well and mostly the way I want it to - I have reported it several times in the past - even if I have been one of the first who called for an upgrade immediately Sony did come out with the reflow pdf and epub upgrade to their 505 (July 2008), and now I even know I will not be having the same on the same machine - I will have to choose epub or mobipocket, and the pdf part will not reflow…

Finally if Bookeen will come out with an upgrade, any upgrade who permits the Cybook to work better, great, if it has functionalities that serve others better even if I do not need/care for them, even better, if the bloody thing just comes out more then a year after the last one (hell it did pass 10 months already!) I can live with it, even if I find it… well… my adjectives will be not proper to put here…

But pay for it, I will not!

Best regards,

T_Frain_K · 07-15-2009, 02:59 PM

One argument against the case would be the following:
If your device, bought for a specific price, gets an update (and you will be charged for it), its value drops without it. Newly sold releases, otherwise unchanged, will include the update for the same price (or even lower).

gerraldo · 07-15-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDHarriman

The question posed was, if I would pay for it, and my answer still is a big No!
And, if I would not get served in a way I think is acceptable… I just change to another company if needed.

Yeah, because it's way better to buy a new device for $250,--, then to "waste" say a 10-20 bucks on the CyBook... I like it, when someone sticks to his principles!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDHarriman

But pay for it, I will not!

So you have never bought any upgrades to a software on your computer or bought one of EAs sports games and its follow-ups?!

BTW: I'm not saying Bookeen should start charging for their FW updates. I just thought, there could be a way to get them interested into providing some features (we want), they otherwise wouldn't consider.

gerraldo · 07-15-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_Frain_K

One argument against the case would be the following:
If your device, bought for a specific price, gets an update (and you will be charged for it), its value drops without it. Newly sold releases, otherwise unchanged, will include the update for the same price (or even lower).

And sometimes they even upgrade the hardware...

Sparrow · 07-15-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerraldo

Yeah, because it's way better to buy a new device for $250,--, then to "waste" say a 10-20 bucks on the CyBook... I like it, when someone sticks to his principles!

Personally, I wouldn't ditch the device straight away - but when it came to replacing it, I'd buy the next one elsewhere. (I wouldn't buy upgrades in the meantime.)

Also, I think firms offering new types of devices need early adopters to get going; and early adopters need to know they're not going to have to pay for improved firmware - which is a punishment for buying too soon.

tompe · 07-15-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerraldo

Yeah, because it's way better to buy a new device for $250,--, then to "waste" say a 10-20 bucks on the CyBook... I like it, when someone sticks to his principles!

It might be much better to buy a new device with more of the functionality you want and better possibility for more functionality in the future than support a company with a bad track record in adding new functionality.

And principles always win over money if you have the money.

lmarie · 07-15-2009, 09:39 PM

I guess I needed a "maybe" choice on the poll. I'd like to see some of the things we've all been asking for, like folders, the delete button, quick route to lookup, etc. before I committed to paying for other options.

Snuffi · 07-16-2009, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Personally, I wouldn't ditch the device straight away - but when it came to replacing it, I'd buy the next one elsewhere. (I wouldn't buy upgrades in the meantime.)

Also, I think firms offering new types of devices need early adopters to get going; and early adopters need to know they're not going to have to pay for improved firmware - which is a punishment for buying too soon.

I agree with that. Companies rely on early adopters buying expensive stuff which still has some bugs and lacks features. They provide important feedback and when the company then decides that those people had some excellent ideas which makes the product much more marketable, they then should have to pay for it? Seems a little unfair and I would expect that a lot of people would rather wait for a while before they buy (like waiting for the 1st Service Pack before you buy the next Windows).

This is not to say that I wouldn't be willing to pay for certain features, e.g. if Cybook introduced support for a new ebook format I would be willing to pay a small fee for that. I would not want to pay for bug fixes and minor improvements to - say - UI or drivers (if it's just cosmetic I don't need it and if it's necessary I would classify that as a bug).

The problem is that I doubt that this would be a viable business model for a company. Customers should have the right to bug fixes free of charge. That means that after they added a new chargeable feature they would have to offer two separate FW branches: one containing only bug fixes and one with the fixes plus the added feature. That could even split up further...

If you also take into account that every payment produces cost for the company (credit card fees, transaction fees, employees, software, etc.) a lot of small payments are not as lucrative as fewer but larger payments. It would be very hard to make any real money with that business model.

Also don't forget that if you can't make people accept the fact (or the price) that you charge for some feature they might try to get the FW update via illegal channels. Considering the small size of a FW compared to music files or DVDs I should think it's easy enough to share it illegally (and the media lobby won't help a small company fighting against illegal sharing of their FW).
Not that piracy should be any reason not to sell something. I just want to point out that if you are thinking of introducing a business model which people won't easily accept and which is rather weak in the first place that the chances of failure are rather high.

T_Frain_K · 07-16-2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerraldo

And sometimes they even upgrade the hardware...

That is not part of the assumption

Badandy · 07-16-2009, 11:55 AM

I wouldn't pay. My cybook freezes in the middle of reading, I've sent numerous emails to bookeen over the past 4 months and they keep saying it will be out within a couple of weeks. I don't care if it's two people coding, they make it sound like they're trying to create Windows from the ground up. It's getting ridiculous, and quite laughable.

Sydney's Mom · 07-16-2009, 04:02 PM

I'd pay $50 for a FW upgrade that gave me folders. Yes, I know, I sound like a broken record. But it would really make my life perfect (assuming the Cubs really do pull it out in the second half!)

EowynCarter · 07-16-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

I'd pay $50 for a FW upgrade that gave me folders.

You won't have tto pay for that

HarryT · 07-17-2009, 05:54 AM

I think she means that she'd pay $50 to actually get it, rather than merely the endless "in a few weeks...."

.

View Poll Results: Would you be willing to pay?
up to $ 5.--	7	9.46%
up to $ 10,--	6	8.11%
up to $ 20,--	13	17.57%
more then $ 20.--	4	5.41%
I'll never pay for a FW update	44	59.46%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

07-15-2009, 10:41 AM	#33
DDHarriman Guru Posts: 860 Karma: 4380 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Almada, Portugal Device: Cybook Gen3, Sony PRS 505, Kindle DXG and Samsung Galaxy Note	Hi I think the argument is not if a company should or should not charge for a thing… - upgraded firmware in this case -, as in this still, market society everyone can charge for anything.… The question posed was, if I would pay for it, and my answer still is a big No! And, if I would not get served in a way I think is acceptable… I just change to another company if needed. More, in this case, my Cybook works perfectly well and mostly the way I want it to - I have reported it several times in the past - even if I have been one of the first who called for an upgrade immediately Sony did come out with the reflow pdf and epub upgrade to their 505 (July 2008), and now I even know I will not be having the same on the same machine - I will have to choose epub or mobipocket, and the pdf part will not reflow… Finally if Bookeen will come out with an upgrade, any upgrade who permits the Cybook to work better, great, if it has functionalities that serve others better even if I do not need/care for them, even better, if the bloody thing just comes out more then a year after the last one (hell it did pass 10 months already!) I can live with it, even if I find it… well… my adjectives will be not proper to put here… But pay for it, I will not! Best regards, Last edited by DDHarriman; 07-15-2009 at 11:30 AM.

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07-14-2009, 02:07 AM	#31
greeny Member Posts: 21 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2008 Device: Cybook	HI All, I think maybe a better solution all round would be to open up the firmware (ala Linux). There are lots of clever people out there that would be able to add all the features that are required. Bookeen could then "vet" the changes and if they are up to release standards then could release the firmware on "their" site. I actually think charging for firmware updates would be a no go to be honest. I know Apple do it but only because they have excellent and innovative user devices (I have an ipod and hate the bloody thing!!) that the mass seem to like (or think they need!). I actually think Apple on the only ones that I have come across that actually charge for firmware updates!! They can possibly do that at the moment when they are considers market leaders. When the competition stiffens up (as it surely must) things may well turn out differently. Just my thoughts and I love my Cybook :-)

07-15-2009, 02:59 PM	#34
T_Frain_K Booyah! Posts: 673 Karma: 1753 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Austria Device: Cybook Gen3 // Samsung Galaxy S	One argument against the case would be the following: If your device, bought for a specific price, gets an update (and you will be charged for it), its value drops without it. Newly sold releases, otherwise unchanged, will include the update for the same price (or even lower).

07-15-2009, 09:39 PM	#39
lmarie Dilettante Posts: 148 Karma: 132 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia area Device: EB1150, Cybook Gen3, Kobo Touch	I guess I needed a "maybe" choice on the poll. I'd like to see some of the things we've all been asking for, like folders, the delete button, quick route to lookup, etc. before I committed to paying for other options.

07-16-2009, 11:55 AM	#42
Badandy Connoisseur Posts: 71 Karma: 13366 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Terminus Device: Kindle 3, iPhone	I wouldn't pay. My cybook freezes in the middle of reading, I've sent numerous emails to bookeen over the past 4 months and they keep saying it will be out within a couple of weeks. I don't care if it's two people coding, they make it sound like they're trying to create Windows from the ground up. It's getting ridiculous, and quite laughable.

07-16-2009, 04:02 PM	#43
Sydney's Mom Wizard Posts: 2,895 Karma: 6995721 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Idaho, on the side of a mountain Device: Kindle Oasis, Fire 3d Gen and 5th Gen and Samsung Tab S	I'd pay $50 for a FW upgrade that gave me folders. Yes, I know, I sound like a broken record. But it would really make my life perfect (assuming the Cubs really do pull it out in the second half!)

07-17-2009, 05:54 AM	#45
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I think she means that she'd pay $50 to actually get it, rather than merely the endless "in a few weeks...." .

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