Amazon Drones, Meet Your Mothership

[John F]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Can I be offended that you think only human maleswant to go varoooooooom! ?
Some human females like the speed too.

There are now cars with automatic parking and some with auto braking if something runs out in front of them.

...

"Auto driving" cars are becoming very standard in the U.S. (I believe). I think that just about any mid priced car has auto steering with cruise control these days.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by John F

"Auto driving" cars are becoming very standard in the U.S. (I believe). I think that just about any mid priced car has auto steering with cruise control these days.

Cruise control yes, auto steer no. Cruise control is just the speed and gear. Not the steer.
Though I have to say it is great because some newer vehicles it doesn't feel like you are going as fast as you are.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Cruise control yes, auto steer no. Cruise control is just the speed and gear. Not the steer.
Though I have to say it is great because some newer vehicles it doesn't feel like you are going as fast as you are.

They also have self steering, which can be used with cruise control ( or separatly).

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by John F

They also have self steering, which can be used with cruise control ( or separatly).

I knew our new truck doesn't have self steering.
Now our little car has natural steering at times. Oh wait make that wind steering.

Though on auto stuff, why doesn't Sirius understand not interested. They have called 3 times since our free trial ran out.

[tubemonkey]

Cruise control + steering kitteh

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by davidfor

But, if all cars are automated, then they all follow the same rules. And they will actually follow the rules. As said, the "Idiots who text and drive", or those who speed will no longer be a factor in making driving decisions. That makes automated cars a lot safer than relying on people.

It still leaves the problem of kids/dogs/whatever running in front of a car. But, I bet it's possible to make a detection system that is faster than a human. And communicates with the cars behind it to slow them down at the same time.

It's going to be a while before we get to something like this, and I don't see a lot of people wanting to give up control, including me, but long term, we do have to consider it.

I think that if ALL cars were automated it might work OK. Having some human-driven and some automated cars on the roads at the same time is probably not going to work well.

[fjtorres]

Believe it or nor, it is the 21st century out there:

2013: http://www.riotinto.com/media/media-...-237_8441.aspx


2015: https://www.wired.com/2015/05/worlds...-road/#slide-x

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK76W1kH4jA

2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb0Kzb3haK8

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...rivers-jobs-us

This isn't SF.
This is the reality of 2017.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by jswinden

I think some of you are very delusional and naive about the capability of technology to even come close to matching a human driver. Just look at the newer automated Airbus airplanes that virtually fly themselves. They have been known to fly themselves into the ground on numerous occasions due to the limitation of the technology. Humans, as dopey and distracted as they can be, are able to react instinctively. Machines will never reach that level. We cannot develop something that is smarter than we are. We are not gods. There is more pseudo-science involved in the common understanding of automated cars than science. The wow factor is there, and it wows those who rarely question everything. But there are too many factors that will keep automated cars from succeeding on any large or meaningful scale. I suspect we will see short stretches of roads with them wherein everything is strictly controlled. But that won't be widespread due to cost, limited technology, and the human male wanting to sit behind the seat of his shiny new sports car and go varooooooom! It is just pure Popular Mechanics dreaming.

We don't have to make something smarter than us. We just have to make it work properly in specific terms.

When it comes down to it, the relative ability to drive a car has little to do with intelligence. We all know people who we wonder how they make it through the day, but seem to be able to navigate their cars across the city without problems.

As you point out with you Airbus example, the technology isn't perfect. But, are talking about a technology in it's infancy. It still needs humans as babysitters. I don't expect to be getting into a non-human driven car any time soon, and I don't expect to be relying on them in my lifetime. But, my great-grandchildren? It won't surprise me if their idea of "driving" was completely different than ours.

And personally, "the human male wanting to sit behind the seat of his shiny new sports car and go varooooooom!" is the reason we need to hurry this technology long.

@Cinisajoy: Yes, some human females like speed as well, but most I know just roll their eyes when the nearby Neanderthal-like males start talking cars.

[tubemonkey]

Forget the self-driving cars. Where are the personal spaceships we were promised so long ago?

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by davidfor

We don't have to make something smarter than us. We just have to make it work properly in specific terms.

When it comes down to it, the relative ability to drive a car has little to do with intelligence. We all know people who we wonder how they make it through the day, but seem to be able to navigate their cars across the city without problems.

As you point out with you Airbus example, the technology isn't perfect. But, are talking about a technology in it's infancy. It still needs humans as babysitters. I don't expect to be getting into a non-human driven car any time soon, and I don't expect to be relying on them in my lifetime. But, my great-grandchildren? It won't surprise me if their idea of "driving" was completely different than ours.

And personally, "the human male wanting to sit behind the seat of his shiny new sports car and go varooooooom!" is the reason we need to hurry this technology long.

@Cinisajoy: Yes, some human females like speed as well, but most I know just roll their eyes when the nearby Neanderthal-like males start talking cars.

Most I know roll their eyes too, but I had to say something for the exceptions. Some of us know how to use tools too. Heck, hubby bought me my own electric screw gun.

[Katsunami]

And in the end, everything will be automated except for the process of creating the devices. All that will be left in the west are jobs at University+ or Ph.D. level, and everyone who hasn't studied at this level for whatever reason will be out of work, out of money, and no-one will be left to buy said devices.

Except maybe the people in countries that actually produce them.

Then western civilization will collapse, and the east will begin to automate everything that hasn't been done yet; after which they'll collapse as well.

We're doomed, and it's all because of automation. We're producing more and more stuff with less and less people.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

And in the end, everything will be automated except for the process of creating the devices All that will be left in the west are jobs at University+ or Ph.D. level, and everyone who hasn't studied at this level for whatever reason will be out of work, out of money, and no-one will be left to buy said devices.

Except maybe the people in countries that actually produce them.

Then western civilization will collapse, and the east will begin to automate everything that hasn't been done yet; after which they'll collapse as well.

We're doomed, and it's all because of automation. We're producing more and more stuff with less and less people.

Ned Ludd salutes you.
He said it first, though.

The world's been going to heck for millenia yet somehow we muddle through.
Automation has been destroying the world for three hundred years yet somehow the standard of living keeps going up.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Ned Ludd salutes you.
He said it first, though.

The world's been going to heck for millenia yet somehow we muddle through.
Automation has been destroying the world for three hundred years yet somehow the standard of living keeps going up.

And in the immortal words of the Buggles: Video killed the radio star. In 1980.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Ned Ludd salutes you.
He said it first, though.

The world's been going to heck for millenia yet somehow we muddle through.
Automation has been destroying the world for three hundred years yet somehow the standard of living keeps going up.

In the year 4545
Ain't gonna need your teeth, won't need your eyes
You won't find a thing to chew
Nobody's gonna look at you

In the year 5555
Your arms are hanging limp at your sides
Your legs got nothing to do
Some machine is doing that for you

In the year 6565
Ain't gonna need no husband, won't need no wife
You'll pick your son, pick your daughter too
From the bottom of a long glass tube, whoa

Now it's been 10,000 years
Man has cried a billion tears
For what he never knew
Now man's reign is through

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Ned Ludd salutes you.
He said it first, though.

The world's been going to heck for millenia yet somehow we muddle through.
Automation has been destroying the world for three hundred years yet somehow the standard of living keeps going up.

Hmpf. With regard to jobs, I've been seeing a big shift. In the Netherlands, tertiary education is structured like this:

MBO level 1 to 4 (vocational school at different levels; but in practice, only level 4 is worth something most of the time)
HBO (University of Applied Science, grants bachelor and master degrees)
WO (Research University, grants bachelor and master degrees)
Ph.D. (Only possible after obtaining a master from a research university)

In the past, there were many jobs for which people at MBO level 2-4 could earn a decent living. If you had a bachelor or up, you'd be guaranteed a good job and an good to excellent salary.

Now, companies want only want bachelors and sometimes even masters for jobs that would have required only MBO level 4 in the past. Many people who only studied up to MBO level 4 work for minimum wage or slightly more.

Companies are going completely crazy here (in the south). Nothing is good enough for them anymore. To give you an idea with regard to a rejection I received a few weeks ago, trying to switch out of IT.

- Official IQ test made at company. Score: 137 (I typically score around 135, +/- 3 points, depending on the type of test and the particular day.)
- Education level: Master @ University of Applied Science. Second master at a research university is in progress.
- Work experience: 12 years

"Your test was quite OK, but average for our company. However, we have decided not to proceed with your application because you have no experience with the tools we use."

That's it.

So, an IQ of 137 is 'average', work experience is not 'good enough/wrong', and a master level education does not convince people you're able to learn stuff quickly. If I can study the basics of a completely new subject at university in 4-8 weeks, I'm sure I can study and learn how to use some tools used in a company, no? Apparently not.

If someone with my education, work experience and level of intelligence is shoved aside as average/not good enough, how is someone with an MBO level 1-4 or a bachelor or less work experience EVER find a decent job better than stacking crates in a factory?

The only people who are hired almost instantly are people having as low an education as possible, for factory work and such, for minimum wage, and people having a master at research university backed up with 10+ years of work experience.

Basically everybody else can shove it, if you're looking for a job that is only *slightly* different than what you've been doing for the last 10 years. ("Your work experience doesn't suit our company," or "Your profile is no match for our team" bullshit.) And salary? If you *are* hired, you'll have to be content with whatever the company offers you. Most of the time everything above €30-35K a year (gross) is frowned upon except for 'team leaders', 'managers' or 'chefs'.

To put this into perspective: €35K a year, including 8% vacation money, would come down to €32.407 without vacation money, €2700 gross a month, or €2000-2100 net a month. That's not a lot, if renting a small apartment in a *SMALL* city/town starts around €700. You'll have that €35K gross if you're *lucky*, and in one of the bigger cities.

There are so many people out of a job (even people with bachelor+ education) that companies are going completely berserk in their requirements for *any* job they have open.

And yes, I blame automation for this disparity.

Obviously, there are always exceptions, but this is what I'm seeing here in the south of the country. I'm not even out of a job and can't get to switch, for god's sake.