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Old 10-13-2024, 12:32 PM   #631
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Originally Posted by Frogm4n View Post
And how, exactly, is Amazon to know that the files that were loaded with faked metadata are *not* actually corrupted Kindle store files that need to be cleaned up? The whole idea that Amazon should ignore files that the Kindle is told "are" Kindle store files is silly.
I disagree. Unless the file(s) in the Kindle library is/are specifically "borrowed", I don't think Amazon should be (without user permission) removing any files from the user library.
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Old 10-13-2024, 12:39 PM   #632
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Again, the files say "I really am a Kindle store file" so how is Amazon supposed to know that they *aren't*?
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Old 10-13-2024, 12:51 PM   #633
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Again, the files say "I really am a Kindle store file" so how is Amazon supposed to know that they *aren't*?
They should not delete them unless the user has deleted them, it's that simple. Not because they "should not exist" on the device. No guesswork.

It's not impossible, you know. They did it exactly that way for over a decade, until someone's stupid decision to automate some process, and now we have the current mess as the result.
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Old 10-13-2024, 12:56 PM   #634
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Right, and then Amazon leaves actually corrupt files sitting around that do things like get the indexer stuck and burn up battery life and people will whine and complain about their incompetence that they didn't get cleaned up. It's a no-win. People want the benefits of their files being treated as official Amazon files but don't want to suffer the consequences of their files being treated like official Amazon files.

"Treat this like an official file!" ... "Not like that!"
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Old 10-13-2024, 01:00 PM   #635
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Originally Posted by Frogm4n View Post
And how, exactly, is Amazon to know that the files that were loaded with faked metadata are *not* actually corrupted Kindle store files that need to be cleaned up? The whole idea that Amazon should ignore files that the Kindle is told "are" Kindle store files is silly.
Of course it isn't silly. Yes, Amazon should in fact ignore everything on the user's device without a specific action on the user's part.
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Old 10-13-2024, 01:02 PM   #636
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Right, and then Amazon leaves actually corrupt files sitting around that do things like get the indexer stuck and burn up battery life and people will whine and complain about their incompetence that they didn't get cleaned up. It's a no-win. People want the benefits of their files being treated as official Amazon files but don't want to suffer the consequences of their files being treated like official Amazon files.

"Treat this like an official file!" ... "Not like that!"
I don't remember anyone here ever demanding that Amazon delete their corrupted files. The whole idea is ridiculous. Amazon should not touch the files on the user's device on their own, period.
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Old 10-13-2024, 02:48 PM   #637
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Right, and then Amazon leaves actually corrupt files sitting around that do things like get the indexer stuck and burn up battery life
Is there any evidence that kindle firmware has ever dtermined that an ebook is stuck indexing or corrupted and deleted it?
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Old 10-13-2024, 03:00 PM   #638
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Again, the files say "I really am a Kindle store file"
No, the files aren't saying that. Amazon is presumptuously interpreting it that way.

How does Amazon get to lay claim on something simply because its content contains the four simple letters E B O K ? If they want to mark books they have sold, maybe they could do it in a bit more sophisticated manner? There are easy ways to digitally sign content in a secure way. Adding the letters "EBOK" to it is not one of those ways.
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Old 10-13-2024, 03:14 PM   #639
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No, the files aren't saying that. Amazon is presumptuously interpreting it that way.

How does Amazon get to lay claim on something simply because its content contains the four simple letters E B O K ? If they want to mark books they have sold, maybe they could do it in a bit more sophisticated manner? There are easy ways to digitally sign content in a secure way. Adding the letters "EBOK" to it is not one of those ways.
They are following their own standard. The "four simple letters" are in a particular metadata field, which exists to pass information.

I don't use kindle sync features. I wouldn't care if they went away, but there are people for whom they are important.

If this problem is caused by a bug, then that bug should certainly be fixed.

IMO, amazon takes many nefarious actions, but I don't think that this is one of them.
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Old 10-13-2024, 04:10 PM   #640
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The "four simple letters" are in a particular metadata field, which exists to pass information.
The way I see it, is this metadata is to pass information to the Kindle hardware/firmware regarding how it should handle a particular eBook. And there is nothing wrong with an individual trying to instruct the Kindle to give the same treatment to their personally owned eBook. The Kindle belongs to the customer, not Amazon. This metadata is not to pass information to Amazon so they can delete the book from the Kindle. On their whim. Without notice. Silently. Without adding a note to their logfile indicating what they have done or why. Personally, I call that "nefarious".
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Old 10-13-2024, 05:46 PM   #641
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The way I see it, is this metadata is to pass information to the Kindle hardware/firmware regarding how it should handle a particular eBook. And there is nothing wrong with an individual trying to instruct the Kindle to give the same treatment to their personally owned eBook. The Kindle belongs to the customer, not Amazon. This metadata is not to pass information to Amazon so they can delete the book from the Kindle. On their whim. Without notice. Silently. Without adding a note to their logfile indicating what they have done or why. Personally, I call that "nefarious".
OK, I've given up all hope that you are discussing in good faith.

To just pick the last straw.
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Without adding a note to their logfile indicating what they have done
FYI, one of the most knowlegable mobileread members regarding amazon ebook formats showed the log file deletion mention, I think in this very thread.
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Old 10-13-2024, 06:14 PM   #642
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Perhaps if Amazon did a pop up similar to the one Kobo uses when you have opened books and then not read them for an extended period asking if you want the book to be marked unread, I could accept their action. To do it silently without any notification is enough to qualify it as nefarious IMNSHO.

The apologist suggesting Amazon are removing potentially corrupt books without any evidence that such books actually existed and were removed to excuse Amazon's actions are grasping at straws to defend the indefensible, again IMNSHO.
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Old 10-13-2024, 06:24 PM   #643
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^Why are you so unwilling to apply Hanlon's razor, especially since it hasn't been happening to kindles frequently connected to wifi?
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Old 10-13-2024, 08:43 PM   #644
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FYI, one of the most knowlegable mobileread members regarding amazon ebook formats showed the log file deletion mention, I think in this very thread.
Well, my complete comment about that was "what they have done or why".

Where is the "why?" part of their logfile entry? Just saying "We deleted your book" is pretty useless (although it does confirm that they did it intentionally). We look in logfiles to find out what might have preceded, caused or triggered an event like this. We already know the event happened. That's why we are looking in the logfile in the first place.

I agree that a strict literalist could look at the sentence I wrote and pick it apart word by word alongside a dictionary to try and tease some alternate meaning from it to mount a counterpoint. That is quite common behavior here on MobileRead. I thought it was obvious that I was asking for details and motivations in the logfile. You know, information that would actually be helpful to someone trying to figure out what happened. THAT is what is missing from the logfile. Do you have other information I am not aware of to share on this? I'll be glad to read over it and possibly change my opinion of Amazon's behavior if warranted.
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Old 10-13-2024, 09:12 PM   #645
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^Why are you so unwilling to apply Hanlon's razor, especially since it hasn't been happening to kindles frequently connected to wifi?
Oddly, that Kindles that are connected to the Internet regularly do not see sideloaded books being removed is one of things that suggests, to me, that Amazon is doing this deliberately.

IMHO, Amazon was probably attempting to remove books that are no longer available to the user such as Kindle Unlimited loans that have been returned or any books that have been removed from the user's digital content. That the algorithm they use to decide which books to remove is more of an area effect weapon (think MOAB) than a targeted weapon (think sniper rifle) is on Amazon.

Applying Hanlon's Razor would make no difference other than to suggest that Amazon suffers from stupidity rather than malice. To the end user, this makes no difference, their sideloaded books would still be missing and Amazon is carrying the blame for doing so.
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