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Old 06-11-2018, 12:35 PM   #16
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Well, actually I had 3 devices, a macbook pro with a keyboard case, a iPad Pro 12.9 and an iMac 27". The iPad Pro worked better to carry around with me and the iMac worked better at home, so the macbook pro simply wasn't being used.
Logical. Ipad serves all your needs.

Now consider the following cases:

1. You need mobility and you also need something more lightweight than macbook pro, but at the same time you need to run some emulation of windows for a program which was written for windows only. You cannot run this program on ios, but possible on mac's os.

2. You need mobility, to work on something which you carry around, and then go back home and work on something more efficient, by way of just plugging it in, and without switing devices or taking care of any sync (be it through wifi or ethernet).

3. You are travelling, and do need something more efficient part of the day, and more mobility the other part. And you do not want to carry two devices with you on the trip, but only one.

If Apple's research team is not looking into it, it is quite efficient in this respect.

The answer is that model, that I have described.

Now, I think the Apple's may have met with some patent issues, or with some security issues, or with some technological issues (it is not quite easy to integrate something powerful into keyboard, without adding more weight or more heat).

Also it is quite a new line for Apple, and after Steve Jobs has gone, it is not so ambitious in occuping new market and demand areas as before. But things can change.

I think Apple may test the market with the 14 inch model, analogue of Surface Book 2.

14 inch is not too big for the tablet to carry around, and it is the professional size. And yet it is smaller than 15 inch, so may appeal to greater audience.

If Apple is scared, let them make the sample device, and give it to others to test, and they'll see how useful it can be.

If Apple is scared that it will be loosing the market for Ipad with this device, then I'd say it is not necessarily so, because this device will be more expensive than Ipad, and not many people need additional keyboard, when they only need good tablet.

Another option is also to enable such a device to be able to run IOS mode, if a person finds that he basically needs the tablet for a longer time. But this is just in the area of distant possibilities.

Last edited by xtech; 06-11-2018 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:25 PM   #17
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1. You need mobility and you also need something more lightweight than macbook pro, but at the same time you need to run some emulation of windows for a program which was written for windows only. You cannot run this program on ios, but possible on mac's os.

2. You need mobility, to work on something which you carry around, and then go back home and work on something more efficient, by way of just plugging it in, and without switing devices or taking care of any sync (be it through wifi or ethernet).

3. You are travelling, and do need something more efficient part of the day, and more mobility the other part. And you do not want to carry two devices with you on the trip, but only one.
One thing to consider is Apple designs products for mass market. How many millions of people actually have a use-case like this?


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I think Apple may test the market with the 14 inch model, analogue of Surface Book 2.

14 inch is not too big for the tablet to carry around, and it is the professional size. And yet it is smaller than 15 inch, so may appeal to greater audience.
At this juncture, a 14-inch iPad Pro is more likely than a 2-in-1 MacBook. Get rid of the bezels on the iPad Pro 12.9 and you've got 14 inches already (around the size of letter or A4 paper).


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If Apple is scared, let them make the sample device, and give it to others to test, and they'll see how useful it can be.

If Apple is scared that it will be loosing the market for Ipad with this device, then I'd say it is not necessarily so, because this device will be more expensive than Ipad, and not many people need additional keyboard, when they only need good tablet.

Another option is also to enable such a device to be able to run IOS mode, if a person finds that he basically needs the tablet for a longer time. But this is just in the area of distant possibilities.
Why would Apple be scared of a $2000-4000 device cannibalizing sales of an $800-1500 tablet? That part's not the issue. Reckon for Apple, it's more important to get UI/UX right first when developing a hybrid device. Something half-baked isn't going to cut it with their "It just works" tagline.
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:47 PM   #18
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SB2 is amazing but just too outrageously expensive. At $3200-ish, optioned as I'd want, it is two to three times the price of a very premium laptop, say a well-optioned Dell XPS 13.

SB2 is certainly more capable, especially with the optional 'discrete graphics' base. But too hard to justify for me. At this point I'd rather have multiple devices and some reduced capability when I travel light.
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Old 06-11-2018, 06:00 PM   #19
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SB2 is amazing but just too outrageously expensive. At $3200-ish, optioned as I'd want, it is two to three times the price of a very premium laptop, say a well-optioned Dell XPS 13.

SB2 is certainly more capable, especially with the optional 'discrete graphics' base. But too hard to justify for me. At this point I'd rather have multiple devices and some reduced capability when I travel light.
Yeah, 15inch model is too expensive, but if you combine the price of ipad 12.9 and macbook pro 15, it is not so bad. However, SB2 13 inch is better in terms of price, around 2600-2700 for 500GB, i7, and 16GB memory, if I am not mistaken (inculding additional discreet graphics).

So, some 14 inch Mac of similar tech may coust around 2000-2800, depending on the components.

Or if Microsoft is overpriced because of the marketing addit. costs, Apple may even make it consciously significantly lower. Let them make it around $1800 and it will be sold like nice cookies.

Last edited by xtech; 06-11-2018 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:03 PM   #20
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In the meantime, you can VNC (with any of several client apps) from iPad to your Mac, and have a touch interface to it as well.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:24 PM   #21
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I think that with the Surface Book 2 the Microsoft actually went ahead of Apple.
Windows 10 is the dealbreaker for me. I use it on my desktop, but in light of the lack of control over even something as trivial as updates (which are huge), I'm not willing to deal with it on additional devices. For mobile/touch use, I also feel iOS is superior and better designed.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:16 PM   #22
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Our use case is creating spreadsheets, storing photos & emails at home on a 27” imac ($2000) and having a $900 ipad 12.9 for web, movies, email, etc. We share the imac but each have an ipad.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:37 PM   #23
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In the meantime, you can VNC (with any of several client apps) from iPad to your Mac, and have a touch interface to it as well.
Sometimes it can help, but when travelling, or out for a longer time you need then to keep mac running, which is not always a good idea.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:40 PM   #24
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Windows 10 is the dealbreaker for me. I use it on my desktop, but in light of the lack of control over even something as trivial as updates (which are huge), I'm not willing to deal with it on additional devices. For mobile/touch use, I also feel iOS is superior and better designed.
So, I'd have bought the Apple's analogue of SB2, but since ipad does not allow to emulate win, and some programs are windows based, and I need them, I had to stick to win notebook. So, the point is: "Apple, do something similar, and I'll switch back to you". Ipad do not fill all the needs as Mac can fill, and I wrote above why Apple's analogue of SB2 can solve many problems.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:41 PM   #25
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Our use case is creating spreadsheets, storing photos & emails at home on a 27” imac ($2000) and having a $900 ipad 12.9 for web, movies, email, etc. We share the imac but each have an ipad.
So, what would you buy if you need something more efficient than ipad, when outside, or something to run win program? And at the same time with the option of having it both efficient and as lightweight as possible on some occasions?
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:05 PM   #26
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One issue with the 13" SB 2 is that the discrete graphics base is not the same video card as the 15". It is significantly less capable, given that I'd want it to do gaming duty as well. I assume there was a total electrical power constraint but if they'd put the 15" graphics card in the 13" model then it'd be much more attractive to me.

I have the philosophy, honed by lugging extremely heavy laptops around the world for too many years, that smaller and lighter is better. When I am home or at work a docking station and 'clamshell' mode gives full size keyboards, monitors, and mice.

We recently sent back the 14" Lenovo X1 Yoga loaner that Lenovo gave us. Everyone liked its keyboard more than the Dell 13" 2-in-1's we are trialing (more travel, better feel) but every one *also* picked the Dell's to keep because there are noticeably lighter and smaller.
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:07 PM   #27
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Working regularly on Ipad 12.9, more and more I feel that 15 inch ipad may not be enough. It would be best to make 16 inch one in the following wa - to make the height of the current ipad pro 12.9 bigger, sometihng like 5 cms higher, and the width around 1-2 cms wider.

In this case the Ipad will comfortably host three applications, side by side. And will still stay portable.
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Old 01-11-2019, 01:24 AM   #28
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FWIW, I've been a fan of stylus computing since first drawing with an inexpensive graphics tablet on a Commodore 64.

The highwater mark of my computer experience was an NCR-3125 running PenPoint (as a mobile device) paired with a NeXT Cube with a Wacom ArtZ stylus.

For a long while now I've been using Windows pen computers and Tablet PCs --- one of the best was a Fujitsu Stylistic ST4121 which I still use to drive a scanner and to control CNC machines when using them on my back deck (it has a transflective display which works in direct sunlight). Current machine is a Samsung Galaxy Book 12 running the 1703 build of Windows 10 since I can't stand how Fall Creators Update and later cripple styluses on devices which have touch.

I'd like to switch back to Mac OS X, but I prefer a Wacom EMR stylus to an Apple Pencil, and I need for my computer to be mobile and able to run a full OS, so the iPad Pro doesn't suit my needs, and having it and even a Mac Mini adds up pretty quickly:

- iPad Pro
- Apple Pencil

these would (sort of) work when traveling. I'd need to add:

- Astropad Duet
- Mac Mini
- Wacom Cintiq

for use at home. I'd be much happier if Apple would just update OpenSTEP so that I could run it on my GB12.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:52 AM   #29
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Sometimes I use ipad 12.9 for reading, it is nice in terms of running quickly, different texts at the same time, many other features.

What I lack are two things:

1. Bigger screen.
Don't iPads allow connectivity for external monitors and projectors? (I never had an iPad, hence the question.)
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Old 01-12-2019, 02:55 PM   #30
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Don't iPads allow connectivity for external monitors and projectors? (I never had an iPad, hence the question.)
Yes they do. I have an adapter for HDMI output that works fine for videos and images.
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