Any modern ereaders that can use nested collections?

madagascaradam · 02-18-2019, 03:21 PM

I'm looking to replace a PW1 (as I detailed here in this thread). One thing I've come to rely upon in my PW1 is nested collections (for grouping books in series within genre and for curriculum units within a work collection and things like that)... after having jailbroken the PW1, managing collections on Calibre, and using the Collections Manager kindlet (or whatever the term for it is). I've really appreciated it because I can keep a lot of books on my kindle at once (something I highly value as I'm traveling frequently) and I can also browse through them quickly without having to scroll through tons of pages of books in the same collection.

However, I'm struggling to find any newer eInk readers that can use nested collections... is it true that there are none that can do it except for older jailbroken kindles?

Please advise if you know of *any* modern eInk readers that can use nested collections. And/or which ereaders can have the same books in multiple collections?

On my other thread where I'm asking for suggestions as to which ereader to buy (linked in the first sentence on this post) I mention other desires in an ereader. But at this point, I'm just wanting to narrow it down to find out whether there's any possibility for me to switch ereaders while still maintaining functionality of nested collections.

If you can help me narrow this down, then I can ask for more advice on user experience with whatever ereaders (if any) can actually do nested collections. Sorry if it seems like I shouldn't make a new thread for this, but I thought it might help to get more attention to this one central question which my other thread didn't necessarily make obvious.

DNSB · 02-18-2019, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madagascaradam

Please advise if you know of *any* modern eInk readers that can use nested collections. And/or which ereaders can have the same books in multiple collections?

While I have never tried to use nested collections on a Kobo ereader and don't think they are possible, I have used books in multiple collections. OTOH, once the number of collections on my ereaders hit the point where I was having to page through 80-100 pages of collections, I gave up and embraced search which works on author, title and series. For quite a few books, series is (mis)used (Cooking-French is not a real series

) to give me a searchable equivalent of some of my old collections.

You might want to check Kobo Shelves and Collections for more information. As for the name of the wiki, Shelves was the old term for what Kobo now terms Collections.

If you are not using calibre, this is a good time to check it out.

madagascaradam · 02-19-2019, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNSB

While I have never tried to use nested collections on a Kobo ereader and don't think they are possible, I have used books in multiple collections. OTOH, once the number of collections on my ereaders hit the point where I was having to page through 80-100 pages of collections, I gave up and embraced search which works on author, title and series.

You might want to check Kobo Shelves and Collections for more information. As for the name of the wiki, Shelves was the old term for what Kobo now terms Collections.

If you are not using calibre, this is a good time to check it out.

Thanks for this helpful info! It at least gives me some idea of my options. I don't believe Kindle can sort by series (certainly not older firmeware that I've been using anyway).

When Kobo sorts by series, does it sort only *books* by series or can *collections* even be in a "series"? If I can't nest collections, I wonder if labeling collections as being within a series (and then sorting by it) would speed up the browsing process. Just a thought.

Secondly, if I did go for Kobo (which I'm slightly leaning towards), what Kobo would you recommend? I've used PW1 for over 5 years and loved it and read extensively from it, usually every day. So for an upgrade I'd want roughly the same basic features (except I don't need access to anyone's architecture such as the kindle store or anyone else's store, nor do I need network options such as 3G or even wifi - I sideload all my books, and yes, I use calibre exclusively for everything related to my ereader), what I would still want are: lighted screen with adjustable light (manual adjustment might be preferred), great battery life (this is the #1 reason I'm replacing my PW1, battery life had dropped dramatically in the last few months), I like touch screen and making highlighted notes, 4GB or more storage space (because my 2GB paperwhite is totally full), and honestly a waterproof would be nice if affordable but not essential. Oh, and I enjoy being able to change my own screensavers, is that possible on Kobos? So... any suggestion as to the right Kobo (with the right, preferably low, price) for most of those features?

Also, if I got a Kobo, is there a jailbreaking process and modifications that many people find helpful?

stuartjmz · 02-19-2019, 02:31 AM

The Kobo Aura H2O2 is waterproof, has adjustable frontlighting, and 8Gb (effectively 6Gb) storage. With a 6.8 inch screen, it's the same weight and only a little wider than my old PW2. I don't think it does custom screensavers, but it ticks most of the rest of your boxes.

Quoth · 02-19-2019, 07:53 AM

I don't think any eReader or eReader software does nested (like the 3 level category tags). Only flat collections and on a good day, books in a series ordered by series on Kobo. Both Kindle & Kobo allow a book in multiple collections, though only reliably on the device. In theory that works on Calibre too, but on creation from Calibre I just get extra collections with both names.
Being able to sort nested collections by Amazon / Smashwords / BIAC three level categories more than once (at least twice) would be wonderful.

Pajamaman · 02-19-2019, 08:02 AM

When you say nested, do you mean sub-collections within a collection. If so you could use simple folder organisation. Any android reader should allow it, and I think Koreader will also do it, which works on a Kobo and jailbroken Kindles, but I'm not aure how stable it is. Recently I installed it on a PW2 and it crashes when I alter font properties.

Terisa de morgan · 02-19-2019, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

When you say nested, do you mean sub-collections within a collection. If so you could use simple folder organisation. Any android reader should allow it, and I think Koreader will also do it, which works on a Kobo and jailbroken Kindles, but I'm not aure how stable it is. Recently I installed it on a PW2 and it crashes when I alter font properties.

Keep in mind: Folder structure doesn't allow a book in two collections.

madagascaradam · 02-19-2019, 09:44 AM

Thanks for the extra input from each of you so far. Yes, one person did tell me about creating a collection with folder organization, but as others have said, it doesn't allow a book in two collections. It's still something worth considering for me though...

How do you manage your folder organization on the PW2? Does Calibre automate it for you or do you have to do it manually every time? I really like the ease of having Calibre send all my books over and having Calibre designate which collections they're in. If Calibre could also be configured to synchronize the folder structure, then it might be worth it. But if I have to manage it manually (i.e. add the books to the folder manually with drag & drop or something)... meh.... might not be worth it, since it still doesn't achieve the full functionality I want and it just makes me put in more continuous extra work elsewhere.

Also, on the PW2 itself, how do you browse your folder structure? I really like to see book covers, etc., and I'm plenty satisfied with the default reader on Kindle that I'd be hesitant to add a modification since I don't really need it. But if it worked basically the same (in terms of reading / searching functionality) and just added more collection/folder organization then it might be worth it for me. I only have about 5% of my books, maybe less, that I place in multiple collections anyway, it's the "nested" aspect that's far more useful for me.

Based on input, the Kobo is sounding more intriguing. But the price point puts it pretty high up there. Do Kobo H2O's ever go on sale the way people say paperwhites regularly do? I might have to just bite the bullet and spend the extra money for another good 5yr+ device though, as it *is* a daily usage for me... practically the only way I read any books at all anymore, but I read very often, at least once a day and often multiple times a day. I charged my PW1 like 3 days ago and have probably only read it for 2-3 hours total since then (OK, maybe 4-5, I'm not sure) and it's already down to about 25% battery. :-( I'm not even sure if it'll last until the next big ereader sale!

I take it modern Kindle PW4 doesn't do search/collection/sort by series the way Kobo does? Also, can I designate a Kobo book as having multiple series? For example, "science fiction" if I want to generally browse that genre for a new book or "Old Man's War" if I know I just want a book from that series (and also how I'd arrange the collections themselves in order to reduce clutter). Can a "collection" be designated as a member of a "series" (for example, if I had "Old Man's War" collection, could it be part of the "science fiction" series? That would be a sort of workaround nested collection if I did a search for "science fiction" and within those results I found the collection for "Old Man's War").

Again, thanks everyone for their help/input so far. It seems I'm narrowing down my options, and even if I can't *really* have what I want, at least I know what's available and what my best choices (within availability) might be. More info always helps me decide, so please keep the response coming!

Terisa de morgan · 02-19-2019, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madagascaradam

Based on input, the Kobo is sounding more intriguing. But the price point puts it pretty high up there. Do Kobo H2O's ever go on sale the way people say paperwhites regularly do?

Keep in mind, Kobo H2O is a 6.8", so no so common. And about battery, I read every day in my Kobo Clara (and possibly connect the ereader to the computer for putting or removing books almost every day), and my battery is around 50%... and I don't remember the last time I charged it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by madagascaradam

Also, can I designate a Kobo book as having multiple series?

Multiple collections: yes, multiple series: no. Collection belonging to a series: no.

ilovejedd · 02-19-2019, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madagascaradam

How do you manage your folder organization on the PW2? Does Calibre automate it for you or do you have to do it manually every time? I really like the ease of having Calibre send all my books over and having Calibre designate which collections they're in. If Calibre could also be configured to synchronize the folder structure, then it might be worth it. But if I have to manage it manually (i.e. add the books to the folder manually with drag & drop or something)... meh.... might not be worth it, since it still doesn't achieve the full functionality I want and it just makes me put in more continuous extra work elsewhere.

Send to device or Save to disk template in Calibre preferences.

Sample template:

Code:

{#fandom}/{#extratags:'re($,", ","/")'}/{authors:'sublist($,0,1,"&")'}/{series}/{series}{series_index:0>2s| | - }{title}

madagascaradam · 02-19-2019, 02:33 PM

Thanks for the extra input. So, I'm still debating between a PW 4 and a Kobo (either H2O or Clara, it seems). Does anyone have both and can compare them?

I've read a number of Amazon reviews of people saying the lighting on the new PW4 is more blue than the old lighting, as well as more glare on the screen. That really doesn't sound good to me, as I do a lot of my reading in the dark. The Kobos seem to have the adjustable-color lighting... can people comment on how that is in the dark - especially if compared to ereaders (like the PW) that don't have the comfortlight options?

I've also read a number of Amazon reviews that suggest the PW4 has significantly reduced battery life. That is definitely *not* good in my mind, as my whole reason for wanting to replace my PW1 at this point is that the battery is dying. I don't want a device that already starts with lower battery life levels. I see that Terisa says hers lasts so long she doesn't remember her last charge, so that's a nice start. But are there any direct comparisons..... people who've tried both? Number of days/hours each device can manage? That sort of thing. Let me know if the Kobos (either the Clara or the H2O) definitely have significantly better battery life (or not) than the PW4.

Thanks again!

EDIT: Oh, and does anyone else know if the Kobos regularly go on sale? Again, I struggle with the price point a bit, haha!

madagascaradam · 02-19-2019, 03:17 PM

Also, is there any reason no one suggests the Nook Glowlight 3? The price point is good, the screen lighting is apparently good (based on other threads I've read here). Based on their website, the battery seems good.

Can anyone comment on the collections and sorting abilities of the Glowlight 3? Is there any jailbreaking or helpful hacks for it? Is the general UI decent on it or is there some reason people aren't readily recommending it often on these threads?

Quoth · 02-19-2019, 03:28 PM

PW3 screen at minimum light in a room where you could read a paperback seems superior to the PW4 I was shown.
I have PW3 & Kobo H2O original.
The PW3 is more portable, better touch and better highlighting. The Kobo is better for export of Annotations to laptop.
They are about the same for collections, i.e. Mid 1980s PC Library or document management software is better.
No nesting.
Books can be in more than one collection.
Both are a pig to see what order to read a series, so I edit metadata in Calibre and set it to insert metadata at start of a book.
If an author has a LOT, then I make an eBook about the author. Copy & Paste from web pages to LibreOffice Writer, import into Calibre.
I have all my ebooks in Calibre as Mobi (old format), epub and AZW3 so I can read on any device.

Depends on your location if there are sales. In UK & Ireland, check Argos for Kobo. For Kindle, check your region of Amazon. Sometimes they will not ship refurbished or special offer except from your own marketplace. It's particularly annoying how Amazon treats Ireland as we use Euro like Germany, UK uses Sterling and it's marketplace for Ireland.

I never read without enough light to read a regular paperback. Though my dad apparently reads his Kindle under the blankets with the front light.

I have used 5 kinds of Kindle. I have a Keyboard & PW3 models. I have Nook Touch, Sony PRS350, Kobo Aura H2O original and also had an LCD Binatone Readme. A grandson uses it for ebooks and videos.
I've netbooks, laptops, tablets and 6" phone too. All inferior even to ancient Kindle or Sony to actually read books for 6 to 10 hours. Battery life not an issue on any of the eink models.
They CAN use up a lot of battery if you transfer a lot of files, even if apparently asleep, Maybe background index generation. So leave plugged in to laptop for a while after "ejecting".
I only use WiFi for looking up stuff in a book, not for purchases or transfer.
Kindle can use Amazon, Smashwords or Gutenberg. The Kobo can only use Amazon if you have a Kindle, you live outside USA and you have Calibre and a plugin. It can use Smashwords and Gutenberg. Using DRM encumbered epubs on Kobo means registering it with Adobe. I'd not want to rely on Kobo's bookstore.

stuartjmz · 02-19-2019, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madagascaradam

The Kobos seem to have the adjustable-color lighting... can people comment on how that is in the dark - especially if compared to ereaders (like the PW) that don't have the comfortlight options?

When I bought my Clara, my wife was VERY taken with how well the adjustable colour frontlights worked for reading in bed at night, especially compared to her PW3. So much so that when I decided to get myself an H202 for the bigger screen, I had to buy her one too, now she uses it almost every night, a very happy non-customer

Pajamaman · 02-19-2019, 08:55 PM

I use a library organizing plugin on a jaklbroken pw2. Its a pita. I do greatly appreciate the work done by developers but its a drag compared to just pasting books in folders which is what I do on android readers. Its pita because amazon don't want you to do it. Which is why I installed koreader which hopefully will make it easier. I imagine it would be easier on a kobo being an open as opposed to closed device. But kindle is nice hardware.

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02-18-2019, 03:21 PM	#1
madagascaradam Enthusiast Posts: 36 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2015 Device: Kobo H2O Edition 2	Any modern ereaders that can use nested collections? I'm looking to replace a PW1 (as I detailed here in this thread). One thing I've come to rely upon in my PW1 is nested collections (for grouping books in series within genre and for curriculum units within a work collection and things like that)... after having jailbroken the PW1, managing collections on Calibre, and using the Collections Manager kindlet (or whatever the term for it is). I've really appreciated it because I can keep a lot of books on my kindle at once (something I highly value as I'm traveling frequently) and I can also browse through them quickly without having to scroll through tons of pages of books in the same collection. However, I'm struggling to find any newer eInk readers that can use nested collections... is it true that there are none that can do it except for older jailbroken kindles? *Please advise if you know of any* modern eInk readers that can use nested collections**. And/or which ereaders can have the same books in multiple collections? On my other thread where I'm asking for suggestions as to which ereader to buy (linked in the first sentence on this post) I mention other desires in an ereader. But at this point, I'm just wanting to narrow it down to find out whether there's any possibility for me to switch ereaders while still maintaining functionality of nested collections. If you can help me narrow this down, then I can ask for more advice on user experience with whatever ereaders (if any) can actually do nested collections. Sorry if it seems like I shouldn't make a new thread for this, but I thought it might help to get more attention to this one central question which my other thread didn't necessarily make obvious.

02-19-2019, 02:31 AM	#4
stuartjmz Nameless Being	The Kobo Aura H2O2 is waterproof, has adjustable frontlighting, and 8Gb (effectively 6Gb) storage. With a 6.8 inch screen, it's the same weight and only a little wider than my old PW2. I don't think it does custom screensavers, but it ticks most of the rest of your boxes.

02-19-2019, 07:53 AM	#5
Quoth the rook, bossing Never. Posts: 11,145 Karma: 85874891 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper11	I don't think any eReader or eReader software does nested (like the 3 level category tags). Only flat collections and on a good day, books in a series ordered by series on Kobo. Both Kindle & Kobo allow a book in multiple collections, though only reliably on the device. In theory that works on Calibre too, but on creation from Calibre I just get extra collections with both names. Being able to sort nested collections by Amazon / Smashwords / BIAC three level categories more than once (at least twice) would be wonderful.

02-19-2019, 08:02 AM	#6
Pajamaman Wizard Posts: 2,827 Karma: 10700629 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Canada Device: Onyx Nova	When you say nested, do you mean sub-collections within a collection. If so you could use simple folder organisation. Any android reader should allow it, and I think Koreader will also do it, which works on a Kobo and jailbroken Kindles, but I'm not aure how stable it is. Recently I installed it on a PW2 and it crashes when I alter font properties.

02-19-2019, 09:44 AM	#8
madagascaradam Enthusiast Posts: 36 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2015 Device: Kobo H2O Edition 2	Thanks for the extra input from each of you so far. Yes, one person did tell me about creating a collection with folder organization, but as others have said, it doesn't allow a book in two collections. It's still something worth considering for me though... How do you manage your folder organization on the PW2? Does Calibre automate it for you or do you have to do it manually every time? I really like the ease of having Calibre send all my books over and having Calibre designate which collections they're in. If Calibre could also be configured to synchronize the folder structure, then it might be worth it. But if I have to manage it manually (i.e. add the books to the folder manually with drag & drop or something)... meh.... might not be worth it, since it still doesn't achieve the full functionality I want and it just makes me put in more continuous extra work elsewhere. Also, on the PW2 itself, how do you browse your folder structure? I really like to see book covers, etc., and I'm plenty satisfied with the default reader on Kindle that I'd be hesitant to add a modification since I don't really need it. But if it worked basically the same (in terms of reading / searching functionality) and just added more collection/folder organization then it might be worth it for me. I only have about 5% of my books, maybe less, that I place in multiple collections anyway, it's the "nested" aspect that's far more useful for me. Based on input, the Kobo is sounding more intriguing. But the price point puts it pretty high up there. Do Kobo H2O's ever go on sale the way people say paperwhites regularly do? I might have to just bite the bullet and spend the extra money for another good 5yr+ device though, as it is a daily usage for me... practically the only way I read any books at all anymore, but I read very often, at least once a day and often multiple times a day. I charged my PW1 like 3 days ago and have probably only read it for 2-3 hours total since then (OK, maybe 4-5, I'm not sure) and it's already down to about 25% battery. :-( I'm not even sure if it'll last until the next big ereader sale! I take it modern Kindle PW4 doesn't do search/collection/sort by series the way Kobo does? Also, can I designate a Kobo book as having multiple series? For example, "science fiction" if I want to generally browse that genre for a new book or "Old Man's War" if I know I just want a book from that series (and also how I'd arrange the collections themselves in order to reduce clutter). Can a "collection" be designated as a member of a "series" (for example, if I had "Old Man's War" collection, could it be part of the "science fiction" series? That would be a sort of workaround nested collection if I did a search for "science fiction" and within those results I found the collection for "Old Man's War"). Again, thanks everyone for their help/input so far. It seems I'm narrowing down my options, and even if I can't really have what I want, at least I know what's available and what my best choices (within availability) might be. More info always helps me decide, so please keep the response coming!

02-19-2019, 02:33 PM	#11
madagascaradam Enthusiast Posts: 36 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2015 Device: Kobo H2O Edition 2	Thanks for the extra input. So, I'm still debating between a PW 4 and a Kobo (either H2O or Clara, it seems). Does anyone have both and can compare them? I've read a number of Amazon reviews of people saying the lighting on the new PW4 is more blue than the old lighting, as well as more glare on the screen. That really doesn't sound good to me, as I do a lot of my reading in the dark. The Kobos seem to have the adjustable-color lighting... can people comment on how that is in the dark - especially if compared to ereaders (like the PW) that don't have the comfortlight options? I've also read a number of Amazon reviews that suggest the PW4 has significantly reduced battery life. That is definitely not good in my mind, as my whole reason for wanting to replace my PW1 at this point is that the battery is dying. I don't want a device that already starts with lower battery life levels. I see that Terisa says hers lasts so long she doesn't remember her last charge, so that's a nice start. But are there any direct comparisons..... people who've tried both? Number of days/hours each device can manage? That sort of thing. Let me know if the Kobos (either the Clara or the H2O) definitely have significantly better battery life (or not) than the PW4. Thanks again! EDIT: Oh, and does anyone else know if the Kobos regularly go on sale? Again, I struggle with the price point a bit, haha!

02-19-2019, 03:17 PM	#12
madagascaradam Enthusiast Posts: 36 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2015 Device: Kobo H2O Edition 2	Also, is there any reason no one suggests the Nook Glowlight 3? The price point is good, the screen lighting is apparently good (based on other threads I've read here). Based on their website, the battery seems good. Can anyone comment on the collections and sorting abilities of the Glowlight 3? Is there any jailbreaking or helpful hacks for it? Is the general UI decent on it or is there some reason people aren't readily recommending it often on these threads?

02-19-2019, 03:28 PM	#13
Quoth the rook, bossing Never. Posts: 11,145 Karma: 85874891 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper11	PW3 screen at minimum light in a room where you could read a paperback seems superior to the PW4 I was shown. I have PW3 & Kobo H2O original. The PW3 is more portable, better touch and better highlighting. The Kobo is better for export of Annotations to laptop. They are about the same for collections, i.e. Mid 1980s PC Library or document management software is better. No nesting. Books can be in more than one collection. Both are a pig to see what order to read a series, so I edit metadata in Calibre and set it to insert metadata at start of a book. If an author has a LOT, then I make an eBook about the author. Copy & Paste from web pages to LibreOffice Writer, import into Calibre. I have all my ebooks in Calibre as Mobi (old format), epub and AZW3 so I can read on any device. Depends on your location if there are sales. In UK & Ireland, check Argos for Kobo. For Kindle, check your region of Amazon. Sometimes they will not ship refurbished or special offer except from your own marketplace. It's particularly annoying how Amazon treats Ireland as we use Euro like Germany, UK uses Sterling and it's marketplace for Ireland. I never read without enough light to read a regular paperback. Though my dad apparently reads his Kindle under the blankets with the front light. I have used 5 kinds of Kindle. I have a Keyboard & PW3 models. I have Nook Touch, Sony PRS350, Kobo Aura H2O original and also had an LCD Binatone Readme. A grandson uses it for ebooks and videos. I've netbooks, laptops, tablets and 6" phone too. All inferior even to ancient Kindle or Sony to actually read books for 6 to 10 hours. Battery life not an issue on any of the eink models. They CAN use up a lot of battery if you transfer a lot of files, even if apparently asleep, Maybe background index generation. So leave plugged in to laptop for a while after "ejecting". I only use WiFi for looking up stuff in a book, not for purchases or transfer. Kindle can use Amazon, Smashwords or Gutenberg. The Kobo can only use Amazon if you have a Kindle, you live outside USA and you have Calibre and a plugin. It can use Smashwords and Gutenberg. Using DRM encumbered epubs on Kobo means registering it with Adobe. I'd not want to rely on Kobo's bookstore.

02-19-2019, 08:55 PM	#15
Pajamaman Wizard Posts: 2,827 Karma: 10700629 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Canada Device: Onyx Nova	I use a library organizing plugin on a jaklbroken pw2. Its a pita. I do greatly appreciate the work done by developers but its a drag compared to just pasting books in folders which is what I do on android readers. Its pita because amazon don't want you to do it. Which is why I installed koreader which hopefully will make it easier. I imagine it would be easier on a kobo being an open as opposed to closed device. But kindle is nice hardware.

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