Kindle readers Unite! - Page 2

zacheryjensen · 02-02-2010, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I don't see a problem with a publisher telling the price of a book, personally... Naturally, if Amazon wants to (re)sell it for a lower price than they've bought the book, they're fine to do so.

And naturally, you're free to not buy a book for the given price as well...

Except in the model described and demanded by MacMillan (which, for the record, I support) does not allow Amazon the opportunity to resell or fit the bill to sell at a lower price. That was the whole point, the publishers don't want those lower prices because it's leading to price competition that they believe will eventually force them out of their blockbuster HB pricing model, and thus, all of their profits for most books.

So, while I like the "agency" model, which is what Apple does for apps on their app store, btw, it's worth noting that it takes Amazon almost completely out of the picture in terms of being a retailer, and places them in the position of distribution channel instead. That's why they're so unhappy, because taking a loss on 9.99 new releases helps them push hardware sales, supposedly. They will no longer be able to do that with MacMillan books.

Sweetpea · 02-02-2010, 05:54 AM

It's probably because we have a fixed bookprice that I don't see the problem... Here, shops can't sell below the given price. Period.

stustaff · 02-02-2010, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zacheryjensen

Well that was pretty stupid considering there is no copy protection on CDs and ripping them with even a very weak modern computer is a trivial task that requires little overall time. In fact, the number one online music sales outlet, iTunes, has a rather convenient CD ripping functionality built right in. How's that for you? A company that thrives on music sales makes it easy as pie to import your own existing CD collection.

You can't blame the industry this time around. It was your own gaffe.

That is illegal where i live!

I can also strip DRM from ebooks very simply so if your saying CD's are fine because I could illegally take the music from them how can you hold exactly the same thing against DRM ebooks?

zacheryjensen · 02-02-2010, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stustaff

That is illegal where i live!

I can also strip DRM from ebooks very simply so if your saying CD's are fine because I could illegally take the music from them how can you hold exactly the same thing against DRM ebooks?

It is not illegal in the USA, because CD's do not have copy protection. What makes stripping DRM illegal in the USA is the DMCA which prohibits circumvention of copy protection measures. Again, CDs do not have DRM. So long as your copy is only for personal use, it's covered, and that has been tested in court. So if you live somewhere not in the USA, I can't speak to your laws. However, I wouldn't be surprised if you think it's illegal and it's not really. Many people would be led to believe it's illegal to rip a CD for your music collection in the US by the RIAA when it's definitely not.

stustaff · 02-02-2010, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zacheryjensen

It is not illegal in the USA, because CD's do not have copy protection. What makes stripping DRM illegal in the USA is the DMCA which prohibits circumvention of copy protection measures. Again, CDs do not have DRM. So long as your copy is only for personal use, it's covered, and that has been tested in court. So if you live somewhere not in the USA, I can't speak to your laws. However, I wouldn't be surprised if you think it's illegal and it's not really. Many people would be led to believe it's illegal to rip a CD for your music collection in the US by the RIAA when it's definitely not.

im in the Uk and yes format shifting is illegal!

its being looked at currently, but still illegal for now.

Not that they actuall;y actively chase and prosecute people for ripping their own CD's so teh risk is at least minimal.

amjbrown · 02-02-2010, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zacheryjensen

It is not illegal in the USA, because CD's do not have copy protection. What makes stripping DRM illegal in the USA is the DMCA which prohibits circumvention of copy protection measures. Again, CDs do not have DRM. So long as your copy is only for personal use, it's covered, and that has been tested in court. So if you live somewhere not in the USA, I can't speak to your laws. However, I wouldn't be surprised if you think it's illegal and it's not really. Many people would be led to believe it's illegal to rip a CD for your music collection in the US by the RIAA when it's definitely not.

Population of USA - 308m
Population of world - 6,800m

Proportion of the world which does not live in USA - 95.5%

Proportion of the USA population who forget that from time to time -

*

* answers on a postcard as we'd say in the UK (<1% global population)

Andanzas · 02-02-2010, 09:44 AM

It would be nice if Kindle readers unite... in the Kindle forum.

How many topics have been created in the last few days about the same topic?

scottjl · 02-02-2010, 09:45 AM

so basically you're saying that companies who want to make a profit are being greedy?

orwell2k · 02-02-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

i think everyone should stop buying kindles and buy PocketBook and Onyx EBRs

Well said!

Pardoz · 02-02-2010, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amjbrown

$For books I can live without straight after publication, I expect to pay about half that in twelve months time.

As long as you don't expect to buy anything published by Macmillan, you'll probably do just fine.

Pardoz · 02-02-2010, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I don't see a problem with a publisher telling the price of a book, personally... Naturally, if Amazon wants to (re)sell it for a lower price than they've bought the book, they're fine to do so.

Well, that was the crux of the argument. Amazon wanted to sell for whatever they pleased, Macmillan wanted Amazon to sell for whatever Macmillan told them to sell for.

=X= · 02-02-2010, 01:53 PM

Okay I'll join the boycott.

Anyse · 02-05-2010, 01:01 AM

I read a very good article in the Washington Post the other day detailing how the price of $9.99 was reached. Amazon was willing to take a loss on each Bestseller sold, computing the cost of the Kindle into the bargain. Therefore, when we bought our Kindles, in a way, it was a quid pro quo that we paid for the difference (the loss was absorbed in what we paid for our Kindles) and Amazon absorbed the losses this way. Now, as the publishers want more money, and this is ironic, Amazon will make MORE money on the Bestsellers at the new price and the publisher's will actually get LESS. So, in a way, what we ought to strive for is that those of us who bought our Kindles befor this week, should be able to continue at the prices that we paid as, and this remaind to be seen, it seems that Amazon will be able to sell the Kindels for less as they will no longer have to absorb any losses on them from this point on. This, I feel, would be a good comprimise for those of us who bought our Kindles with the expectation of getting the Bstsellers for $9.99.

What do you think?

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02-02-2010, 05:54 AM	#17
Sweetpea Grand Sorcerer Posts: 9,707 Karma: 32763414 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Krewerd Device: Pocketbook Inkpad 4 Color; Samsung Galaxy Tab S6	It's probably because we have a fixed bookprice that I don't see the problem... Here, shops can't sell below the given price. Period.

02-02-2010, 09:44 AM	#22
Andanzas Out of print Posts: 484 Karma: 1549538 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Madrid, Spain Device: Sony PRS-500 (recycled), Pocketbook Inkpad X Pro	It would be nice if Kindle readers unite... in the Kindle forum. How many topics have been created in the last few days about the same topic?

02-02-2010, 09:45 AM	#23
scottjl Reader of Books Posts: 1,632 Karma: 2697 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	so basically you're saying that companies who want to make a profit are being greedy?

02-02-2010, 01:53 PM	#27
=X= Wizard Posts: 3,671 Karma: 12205348 Join Date: Mar 2008 Device: Galaxy S, Nook w/CM7	Okay I'll join the boycott.

02-05-2010, 01:01 AM	#28
Anyse Devoted Kindle reader Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Sacramento, CA Device: Kindle 2	I read a very good article in the Washington Post the other day detailing how the price of $9.99 was reached. Amazon was willing to take a loss on each Bestseller sold, computing the cost of the Kindle into the bargain. Therefore, when we bought our Kindles, in a way, it was a quid pro quo that we paid for the difference (the loss was absorbed in what we paid for our Kindles) and Amazon absorbed the losses this way. Now, as the publishers want more money, and this is ironic, Amazon will make MORE money on the Bestsellers at the new price and the publisher's will actually get LESS. So, in a way, what we ought to strive for is that those of us who bought our Kindles befor this week, should be able to continue at the prices that we paid as, and this remaind to be seen, it seems that Amazon will be able to sell the Kindels for less as they will no longer have to absorb any losses on them from this point on. This, I feel, would be a good comprimise for those of us who bought our Kindles with the expectation of getting the Bstsellers for $9.99. What do you think?