Kindle Scribe

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by tomsem

And until other Kindles and the Kindle apps let you at least view Sticky Notes, I don't see the point in creating any.

I know that the Kindle for iOS and Android apps recently added the ability to view (but not modify) notebooks created on a Scribe. I assume that the ability to view sticky notes will also be coming but I don't recall seeing any indication that Amazon has actually promised that.

Originally Posted by tomsem

[it seems to me that these 'fake PDFs' are essentially fixed layout KF8 -- at least they behave that way -- the text is not accessible, even though it is 'there' in the HTML. I bought one of these recently and was able to tweak a few things that were misaligned when I converted to PDF]

A PDF sent to a Scribe is converted to Amazon's Print Replica variant of KFX format. Prior to the Scribe that format was not supported on e-ink Kindles, only Kindle apps. Perhaps the implementation is incomplete on the Scribe. It might be worth opening the same doc from a Kindle app registered to your account to see whether it works better there.

Originally Posted by tomsem

happy that ePub personal documents have 'enhanced typography' features

If you open the same personal doc that has Enhanced Typesetting on a different Kindle or a Kindle app registered to the same account does that have Enhanced Typesetting or not? Since sticky notes are only implemented for KFX format that will be required if they are to be viewable across apps and devices.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by jhowell

A PDF sent to a Scribe is converted to Amazon's Print Replica variant of KFX format. Prior to the Scribe that format was not supported on e-ink Kindles, only Kindle apps. Perhaps the implementation is incomplete on the Scribe. It might be worth opening the same doc from a Kindle app registered to your account to see whether it works better there.

I doubt that it's Print Replica, which lets you search for text, select phrases and add notes to them. (why do you think it is?) I wish it was, because it would bode well for Print Replica support on Scribe.

I think it's more likely fixed layout like this book:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...w_myk_ro_title

Which has been supported on Kindles since KF8 was introduced.

If you crack this open, each page consists of an image, with a corresponding HTML page that references an image file and positions text as an overlay. (Most of the Chinese text is part of the image, not in the HTML.)

Because it does have a text layer, it looks like the publisher submitted an FXL ePub directly and Amazon converted it.

It's not completely clear to me that this is possible for KDP submission. Kindle Create will only import PDF or a stack of image files to create a fixed layout book (Comic) and I suspect the PDF is just processed as a series of images, without a text layer. Its previewer does not seem to let you check hyperlinks at all, even for reflow able or Print Replica. And it doesn't export a file you can preview on an actual Kindle, just KPF file for submission to KDP. Once it is there, I don't see a way to be able to preview it on an actual device, just in the online viewer.

KDP also says you can use Kindle Comic Creator, which will open ePub and export MOBI, but when I tried it, the text layer disappeared. The go on to say to use Kindle Previewer to review. But if you have a FXL ePub ready to go, and don't need to define panels, you can just use Kindle Previewer to generate MOBI.

But it's irrelevant, since Kindle doesn't provide any way to interact with the text, so it might as well just be images.

So assuming this fixed layout format is the foundation for what Send To Kindle sends to the Scribe as the facsimile of the PDF, the hyperlinks are added in somehow. (I might try adding some hyperlinks to a fixed layout file to see what Scribe will do with it, since I assume it's not possible to crack open the KFX on the Scribe itself.)

I guess it could be Print Replica, but without most of the expected functionality that goes along with that.

Either way, it's a regression. Any Send To Kindle PDFs since Scribe launched will download in this converted form to the Scribe, and without much of the functionality one gets on other Kindles, where it remains a PDF.

This is a pretty serious deficit. Of course you can side load, but then there's no way to export anything you've done.

Speaking of Export: you DO get a real PDF, but it's 'pure image' - no text or hyperlinks as you may have had in the original, no actual PDF annotation layer.

Next up: Word workflow.

[LDB]

Isn't it usually hold the button for 20 seconds or so on Kindles?

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by jhowell

If you open the same personal doc that has Enhanced Typesetting on a different Kindle or a Kindle app registered to the same account does that have Enhanced Typesetting or not? Since sticky notes are only implemented for KFX format that will be required if they are to be viewable across apps and devices.

Currently it only has enhanced typography features on the Scribe. But clearly it's something they could flip a switch to turn on this behavior for the apps and devices. But it would only apply to personal docs uploaded since Scribe launched.

[John F]

Originally Posted by tomsem

Currently it only has enhanced typography features on the Scribe. But clearly it's something they could flip a switch to turn on this behavior for the apps and devices. But it would only apply to personal docs uploaded since Scribe launched.

Are you sure about this? I would asume that any uploaded doc gets stored in its original format, and then a conversion is done to a format that is need for the device(s) it is sent to.

Just a guess, I really don't know.

[Sonnenfee]

Originally Posted by LDB

Looking forward to following how your Fintie experience goes to see if it is as excellent as mine has been. That looks great with the starry views.

I think the Fintie cover will last a long time, since I don't use the Scribe for every days reading I spare this beautiful device a bit.
On the way to work in the subway I'm reading on a Kobo Libra 2 with KOReader and at home my preferred reader is a jailbroken Oasis 3 with KOReader. I spare the Oasis 3, too. For me also a great device like the Scribe.
I gladly will let you know how the Fintie experience goes on.
Yes, I feel the same way, with the starry views.

[Sonnenfee]

Originally Posted by CheyenneDonna

Where did you find the matching sleeve?

I think your question was directed at me.
I originally bought the sleeve 11 months ago at Amazon for an other device.
In the meantime, this cover is unfortunately no longer available at amazon.de with this pattern, only in dark gray.

Dadansim 9-11 Zoll Tablet Tasche

But maybe you are lucky to still get it in your country.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by tomsem

I doubt that it's Print Replica, which lets you search for text, select phrases and add notes to them. (why do you think it is?)

I based that on post #355 in this thread by angryAspect which has files extracted from a Scribe that resulted from sending an EPUB and a PDF. The EPUB was converted to KFX reflowable format and the PDF was converted to KFX print replica format.

I also base it on having compared the Scribe firmware with the firmware used by other Kindles. The only sign of handwritten annotation support I found was in the part of the firmware that handles KFX format.

It would be good to have more data on how this works. I suggest that you connect your Scribe to a computer via USB and see what format actually results on the device from PDFs you send.

Originally Posted by tomsem

Instead, it's more likely fixed layout like this book:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...w_myk_ro_title

KFX print replica works similarly, but not quite the same, as that book.

In KFX print replica each page is rendered from a PDF file embedded within the KFX document. However the PDF is only used as a source of page images. Other functionality, such as links and text for search and dictionary lookup, are produced by adding an invisible fixed layout overlay on top of the page image. I am wondering whether handling that overlay is not yet working properly on the Scribe.

Or perhaps it depends on how the original PDF was structured. Maybe the conversion process cannot extract the text from some PDFs.

Originally Posted by tomsem

Or maybe they are still working on adding pen annotation to the legacy PDF (FoxIt) support, which would be the right way to do it.

Possible, but highly unlikely in my opinion.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by John F

I would asume that any uploaded doc gets stored in its original format, and then a conversion is done to a format that is need for the device(s) it is sent to.

I highly doubt it. Amazon's documentation indicates that if sticky notes do not work on an old personal document then you should try uploading it again.

Amazon's conversion process requires all of the formats to be produced at the same time so that they can be cross referenced in order to make current reading position and annotations work seamlessly across formats.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by John F

Are you sure about this? I would asume that any uploaded doc gets stored in its original format, and then a conversion is done to a format that is need for the device(s) it is sent to.

Just a guess, I really don't know.

Yes, I loaded an older personal document, and Scribe didn't show enhanced typography, and no Pen features. The magic happens when it's uploaded to amazon, only for ePub (and maybe Word, haven't tried that yet) and not mobi.

Same with PDF. Scribe will download PDF (with PDF logo) if it was uploaded before Scribe launched, but now you get the fake PDF (with 'document' logo).

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by jhowell

I based that on post #355 in this thread by angryAspect which has files extracted from a Scribe that resulted from sending an EPUB and a PDF. The EPUB was converted to KFX reflowable format and the PDF was converted to KFX print replica format.

I also base it on having compared the Scribe firmware with the firmware used by other Kindles. The only sign of handwritten annotation support I found was in the part of the firmware that handles KFX format.

It would be good to have more data on how this works. I suggest that you connect your Scribe to a computer via USB and see what format actually results on the device from PDFs you send.



KFX print replica works similarly, but not quite the same, as that book.

In KFX print replica each page is rendered from a PDF file embedded within the KFX document. However the PDF is only used as a source of page images. Other functionality, such as links and text for search and dictionary lookup, are produced by adding an invisible fixed layout overlay on top of the page image. I am wondering whether handling that overlay is not yet working properly on the Scribe.

Or perhaps it depends on how the original PDF was structured. Maybe the conversion process cannot extract the text from some PDFs.



Possible, but highly unlikely in my opinion.

I did some more edits to my post in light of other discoveries. Now I do recall that earlier post, so you're undoubtedly correct. My optimism for Print Replica support is restored, even as my hopes for improved fixed layer functionality is dashed. In any case a serious regression from PDF functionality.

And the current Export to PDF isn't going to impress anyone either.

I looked at what is on device. Everything has .kfx extension of course. And I don't see any obvious differences in the associated .sdr folders. So although I know which are converted from PDF and which are converted from ePub, because I sent them, it's not obvious from directory listing which is which.

I tried some other PDFs, none of them have selectable text on Scribe. But I'd guess the issue is upstream, not with Scribe itself.

And of course anyone reading this who has a Scribe, can report whether they can select text in the imported PDFs they are looking at. My prior is that one cannot.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by tomsem

I tried some other PDFs, none of them have selectable text on Scribe. But I'd guess the issue is upstream, not with Scribe itself.

If you dig into the PDF.zip file in post #355 you will find the converted file named "Report on Outages and Curtailments_DBE32A7F4E1546E0BF5AEC5ADFD78916.kfx" . I took at look at that using my KFX Input plugin and from that I see that it does actually contain a text overlay as expected for a properly produced KFX print replica file.

I then used the Kindle for PC app to open the file and was able to read it there. Using that app I could select text, do dictionary lookups, and highlight text the same as any purchased print replica book.

Finally I sideloaded it to my Kindle Oasis running 5.15.1 firmware. On that device the doc opens and can be read (slowly) but the text overlay does not function. No ability to highlight, search, or perform dictionary lookup.

My best guess at this point is that the Scribe's handling of KFX print replica is similarly incomplete and hopefully will be improved in a future firmware release, along with the other recent Kindle models.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by jhowell

If you dig into the PDF.zip file in post #355 you will find the converted file named "Report on Outages and Curtailments_DBE32A7F4E1546E0BF5AEC5ADFD78916.kfx" . I took at look at that using my KFX Input plugin and from that I see that it does actually contain a text overlay as expected for a properly produced KFX print replica file.

I then used the Kindle for PC app to open the file and was able to read it there. Using that app I could select text, do dictionary lookups, and highlight text the same as any purchased print replica book.

Finally I sideloaded it to my Kindle Oasis running 5.15.1 firmware. On that device the doc opens and can be read (slowly) but the text overlay does not function. No ability to highlight, search, or perform dictionary lookup.

My best guess at this point is that the Scribe's handling of KFX print replica is similarly incomplete and hopefully will be improved in a future firmware release, along with the other recent Kindle models.

Great information, thanks!

I side-loaded that KFX to scribe (5.16.1) and same issue.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by tomsem

I side-loaded that KFX to scribe (5.16.1) and same issue.

Thank you for trying that. Hopefully the next firmware release will improve this.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by jhowell

Thank you for trying that. Hopefully the next firmware release will improve this.

It's pretty remarkable that something this obvious escaped into the wild.