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Old 05-07-2012, 11:33 PM   #16
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I'm finishing up a long book, and am starting the Odyssey after, so I'll be a little late on this first week. But hopefully I'll be caught up by the end of the week. Looking forward to it.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:45 PM   #17
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So another week passed and another six books of the Odyssey read?

Things really moved along in Books 7-12. Much of what I recall of the story, told in pieces in derivative works, is all covered in these six books. The adventures in the cave of the Cyclops, coping with the enchantments of Circe, the journey to the Kingdom of the Dead, Odysseus alone allowed to listen to the song of the Sirens with the ears of his crew plugged, navigation past the twin threats of Scylla and Charybdis, and the fatal error Odysseus' crew makes in killing the cattle of Helios. Almost all of these adventures told in much more gruesome detail—dashing out of brains, crunching of bones, flowing of blood—then where I had read them before. That and all related by Odysseus in flashback during his stay at the court of the Phaeacia. Slight spoiler here, but by the end of book 13 we find Odysseus back on his home island of Ithaca. Unless more flashbacks are yet to come, that leaves the reaming 12 books devoted to Odysseus slaying the suitors for Penelope's hand and reclaiming his kingdom.

Reading Odysseus' recounting all these experiences I am struck by the self esteem problem he has. He really needs to stop dimming his light beneath a shade of modesty.

It would seem that the Gods are very capricious in what they demand of mortals. On the one hand a cardinal rule of Zeus is that strangers should be treated with generosity, and this the Phaeacians do by heaping gifts upon Odysseus stranded on their island and providing the ship that returns him to Ithaca. When Poseidon complains to Zeus about this though, Zeus encourages Poseidon to sink the ship killing all of the Phaeacian crew in sight of there home on return from Ithaca and then forever sealing off access to the sea.

I am even more struck by the depth of Athena's admiration and support form Odysseus, and must wonder why she (at least so far) has not chosen to make him a sexual partner. The male gods certainly are not at all inhibited from bedding down any mortal female that at all appeals to them.

Finally I am really appreciating all the reference notes available in the Fagles translation. For example Hermes is often referred to as “Hermes the giant-killer.” An epithet yes, but it is nice to know the reason this was chosen as an epithet for him.
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Old 05-16-2012, 04:06 AM   #18
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I don't think Athena went in for consorting with anyone - or else she managed to keep her private life very private! I think her name Athena Parthenos (as in the Parthenon) meant the Virgin Athena.

There were times when I really want to give Odysseus a good shake and tell him to grow up. All that poking and prodding at things is so childish, as for example shouting at Polyphemus and nearly getting the boat wrecked not once but twice just so he can have the last word.

They were also pretty keen on attacking others for no apparent reason. Back at the beginning of Book 9, when he starts the story within the story, Odysseus mentions that after leaving Troy, they fetched up at Ismarus. They sacked the place, killed the men and took the women and the wealth of the town. Presumably just because it was there and they felt like helping themselves to everything.

I also made a note of the extreme misogynism in the passage where he meets the shade of Agamemnon. Now admittedly Agamemnon had reason to be a bit cheesed off with his wife, but still!

Finally I did like the bit in Book 12 when Circe took Odysseus to task: "But the goddess only cried out at me as an obstinate fool, always spoiling for a fight and welcoming trouble." Spot on, I would say!
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:58 PM   #19
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I felt things dragged a bit in books 13 to 18, but I suppose that's just to make us want the grand finale all the more. Getting Odysseus telling his invented story several times just seemed to be padding.

I was touched by the story of his very old dog Argus recognising him and then dying. I did feel pretty indignant that he had not been looked after and lay on a dung heap riddled with vermin. That doesn't say too much for Penelope, Telemachus and the servants. However I assume that animals, even the absent king's hound, were of small account in that society, especially when he was no longer useful in hunting.

I'm looking forward to the final section.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:08 PM   #20
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Well, I started late and finished early! I'm going on vacation in a day and wanted it done before, and I finished today! Whew. Loved it. I'll try to squeeze in some time to contribute on the first 3/4 sometime today or tomorrow, and I'll save comments on the last 1/4 until I return since that's not scheduled to be discussed until next week.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:28 PM   #21
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I'm just back from a short holiday. Is there anyone out there still reading?

I did scamper through the last section before I went away and I thought the denouement was very good, though the cleaning-up must have taken a fair bit of effort. It was good that they managed to stop the feud there.

It's all pretty merciless, isn't it - the women being hanged for consorting with the suitors for example. However, that's no doubt a very accurate reflection of how things were then. And of course we haven't really progressed very far since then, have we.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:48 PM   #22
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What happened to this thread? Did I miss something?
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