Letter to Bookeen

[Snuffi]

Originally Posted by gerraldo

Sounds like the perfect solution would be an eReader-OS + a DRM-Reader + a developer kit (provided by the company). Then developers can come up with whatever software they like...

BTW: In that case it'd be even possible to have DRMed Mobi AND ePub on the device, because Mobi-license allows DRM for different formats on devices with installable software (e.g. PDAs, Smartphones etc.)!

No, the perfect solution would be to abolish DRM and none of those problems would even exist.
With computer software the industry has tried for decades now to prevent copying and exert control over what the user does with the software. Even though not even hardware dongles proved to be hacker-safe and both the music industry and the movie industry failed, the publishers have obviously learnt nothing from the past, turned back the clocks and try again to succeed where everybody else failed...

[T_Frain_K]

Originally Posted by Snuffi

No, the perfect solution would be to abolish DRM and none of those problems would even exist.
With computer software the industry has tried for decades now to prevent copying and exert control over what the user does with the software. Even though not even hardware dongles proved to be hacker-safe and both the music industry and the movie industry failed, the publishers have obviously learnt nothing from the past, turned back the clocks and try again to succeed where everybody else failed...

Naah, I doubt the word failed is appropriate here.

Think of it:
If the appliance of a protection system, which does indeed prevent some users to pirate a product, is cheaper than the estimated loss due to the absense of it, it did pay out.

You´re totally right, any system can be cracked. But the more sophisticated it is, the less is the number of people able to actually use it - that little part is likely overseen in DRM-related discussion, although it is possibly the most important point of it.

Think of Apple:
The iTunes store booms. And that is in a time, where everything available there can be aquired through other, illegal means. Similar with movies - the amount of online-movie stores is still growing.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by captaingeorges

Hi All!

I am a Mac person... But I have a separate partition with Windows XP (I have not used it in over a year...)

Would it be possible with the new firmwares coming (Epub and Mobi) to have both residing on the same machine and start the cybook in one or the other configuration ????



Regards,


Georges

If the ePub firmware ever arrives, you'll have to choose one or the other. There won't be a choice on boot. There won't be a run from SD card. It's either or but not both.

[T_Frain_K]

It´s not like I expect the bootloader to be from bookeen

[Krystian Galaj]

Originally Posted by tompe

The important thing with firmwares is fool proof recovery procedures.

That might be why Bookeen is reluctant to unleash this new firmware on older devices, even though it thinks safe to install it on new ones. Perhaps new ones have more foolproof recovery procedures available because the hardware is updated, and Bookeen well remembers how unstable was the hardware on old devices currently in the wild. Perhaps if they released the firmware, it would work on all devices from the last few months, and would randomly break 1/5th of older devices beyond repair?

[gerraldo]

Originally Posted by Krystian Galaj

That might be why Bookeen is reluctant to unleash this new firmware on older devices, even though it thinks safe to install it on new ones. Perhaps new ones have more foolproof recovery procedures available because the hardware is updated, and Bookeen well remembers how unstable was the hardware on old devices currently in the wild. Perhaps if they released the firmware, it would work on all devices from the last few months, and would randomly break 1/5th of older devices beyond repair?

Because I've heared they're using different versions to update the Gen3s at the french meetup, I was thinking they have problems cramming the new FW in the older devices.

If you need to type your SN in at their website and they provide the appropriate download link, this could be easily solved (and works for your situation too). Maybe it's even needed to send them the really old devices for them to make the update, but anything is better then this endless waiting...

[gerraldo]

Originally Posted by Snuffi

No, the perfect solution would be to abolish DRM and none of those problems would even exist.
With computer software the industry has tried for decades now to prevent copying and exert control over what the user does with the software. Even though not even hardware dongles proved to be hacker-safe and both the music industry and the movie industry failed, the publishers have obviously learnt nothing from the past, turned back the clocks and try again to succeed where everybody else failed...

Yes, sure... in a "perfect" world...

BTW: Seems to me DRM works well with DVD/BlueRay and technically this is just digital content too...

But I think the difference is that a disc is an object (which has a box/printed cover) and you need it + a player to see the movie - meaning most people see it as the DISC and not the digital content.

With all other digital media not provided on a disc or something similar it's just the digital content which you need to copy or install on some device. Most people see digital content not as a "real" object and therefor refuse to pay (that much) for it.

[captaingeorges]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If the ePub firmware ever arrives, you'll have to choose one or the other. There won't be a choice on boot. There won't be a run from SD card. It's either or but not both.

Thanks Jon!

It was worth a try, and it would have been nice!

Regards,

Georges

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by gerraldo

Because I've heared they're using different versions to update the Gen3s at the french meetup, I was thinking they have problems cramming the new FW in the older devices.

If you need to type your SN in at their website and they provide the appropriate download link, this could be easily solved (and works for your situation too). Maybe it's even needed to send them the really old devices for them to make the update, but anything is better then this endless waiting...

I get it. My 1st-gen Gen3 is gonna be too small to update to ePub. That leaves it for Mobi. And my 512MB version should be just fine. If not, then maybe it's time to acknowledge the sad truth and buy either a BeBook or Kindle 2.

Derek

[captaingeorges]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

I get it. My 1st-gen Gen3 is gonna be too small to update to ePub. That leaves it for Mobi. And my 512MB version should be just fine. If not, then maybe it's time to acknowledge the sad truth and buy either a BeBook or Kindle 2.

Derek

Gee Derek!

In the golden days of NAEB you convinced me and others I am sure to buy the Cybook. I have not regretted my choice ever since!!!

Regards,

Georges

[Snuffi]

Originally Posted by T_Frain_K

Naah, I doubt the word failed is appropriate here.

Think of it:
If the appliance of a protection system, which does indeed prevent some users to pirate a product, is cheaper than the estimated loss due to the absense of it, it did pay out.

You´re totally right, any system can be cracked. But the more sophisticated it is, the less is the number of people able to actually use it - that little part is likely overseen in DRM-related discussion, although it is possibly the most important point of it.

Think of Apple:
The iTunes store booms. And that is in a time, where everything available there can be aquired through other, illegal means. Similar with movies - the amount of online-movie stores is still growing.

I agree that if a DRM can prevent enough people from illegal copying that you make more money from sales than the DRM cost, it would be worth it.
This, however, ist not the case as some studies have shown (although the studies are based on estimates and bits and pieces of information leaked out because the media industry is not giving any hard numbers on their expenses for DRM)

If I said that DRM failed in other areas I was, however, pointing to the abolishment of DRM in many online music stores. If you invest a lot of money into the development of a DRM system and you abandon it in the end, that would qualify as a failure.

Also, my statement against DRM was not a voice pro piracy. I was actually thinking of iTunes like you: They (as well as other music shops) sell music without DRM now and still make cartloads of money. That proves to me that people are willing to pay for legal goods and that it's more a matter of just listening to your customers than selling them severely crippled goods and threatening them for trying to do things with their rightfully bought stuff they always did (like taking your music along in your car or continue reading a legal book even if you bought a new device).

Abolishment of DRM, in my opinion, does not mean that digital goods should be stolen. Copyright holders have every right to protect their rights but DRM is taking away a lot of things I could always legally do with my own property. This is acceptable if you define DRMed goods not as sold goods but more as rented goods. But if I only rent my digital goods I expect a significantly lower price than if I purchase something to own. With music there were such models (flatrate for all the music you wanted but you could not share, take it to another place and it was useless once you cancelled the flatrate) and while it's not my cup of copy I think it's a very valid business model and in that case DRM is also a valid option.

[EowynCarter]

Also, my statement against DRM was not a voice pro piracy. I was actually thinking of iTunes like you: They (as well as other music shops) sell music without DRM now and still make cartloads of money. That proves to me that people are willing to pay for legal goods and that it's more a matter of just listening to your customers than selling them severely crippled goods and threatening them for trying to do things with their rightfully bought stuff they always did (like taking your music along in your car or continue reading a legal book even if you bought a new device).

Acctually, i'm WAY more willing to pay for no-drm stuff. I stoped buying games for that reason (until the publishers comes to thier sences and get rid of drm). I never bought music online until it was some good old mp3.
As to blue rays they can't be read with linux because of that. So, i won't buy then as i can't read them.

[Snuffi]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

Acctually, i'm WAY more willing to pay for no-drm stuff. I stoped buying games for that reason (until the publishers comes to thier sences and get rid of drm). I never bought music online until it was some good old mp3.
As to blue rays they can't be read with linux because of that. So, i won't buy then as i can't read them.

Same here. I always paid for my CDs and books, I am not starting to steal them now.
BUT I am not paying for something I cannot use the way I want to use it (same here with BlueRays -> why would I pay more to get less flexibity than with my good old DVDs).
PLUS I am not willing to pay the full price of a printed hardcover book in a shop for a digital edition. In Europe they intend to continue selling the books for the same price or some small discount like 10% off or less (I have found paper back editions cheaper than the ebook of the same book). While that continues I'll save my money and stick the reading PD or CC material (plus the vast amount of material I can gather and convert myself -> calibre does an excellent job to convert a wide array of news to a mobi for me to read on the way to work).

[EowynCarter]

Same here. I always paid for my CDs and books, I am not starting to steal them now.

True. I went to buy the cd to make mp3. But most of time price meant i went back home with noting. Music, books, movies, games, they are not vital. You can just live without if you think them too expensive, packed with drm.

PLUS I am not willing to pay the full price of a printed hardcover book in a shop for a digital edition. In Europe they intend to continue selling the books for the same price or some small discount like 10% off or less (I have found paper back editions cheaper than the ebook of the same book).

I agree. I went looking for some ebook from a french autor. when i found it 17 euros.
No tanks, i'll go borrow the hardback at the library, or wait for paperback.

[T_Frain_K]

Originally Posted by Snuffi

...

OK, now that I can agree with.

As for the pricings: I AM willing to pay 20 € for a hardcover book, as (and if) I believe it to be worth it. At some points, I like them better than paperbacks.