More help with 'old English' please

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Also available for free in America – but harder to find ...

https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Will...1423516&sr=1-3

Both appear to be illustrated.

Again, RUBBISH! The names of the characters is again abbreviated. Who are these stupid people who think abbreviated character names is a good idea?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Again, RUBBISH! The names of the characters is again abbreviated. Who are these stupid people who think abbreviated character names is a good idea?

They would include Messrs. Heminge and Condell, the compilers of the First Folio. The character names are in the stage directions ("Enter Antonio"), and abbreviated names ("Ant.") used thereafter. That seems satisfactory to me, particularly when reading on a device with a fairly narrow screen.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

They would include Messrs. Heminge and Condell, the compilers of the First Folio. The character names are in the stage directions ("Enter Antonio"), and abbreviated names ("Ant.") used thereafter. That seems satisfactory to me, particularly when reading on a device with a fairly narrow screen.

Not only are you having to decipher the olde English, you are also tasked with remembering the full names from the abbreviations. I disagree that this is OK. It's far from OK.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Not only are you having to decipher the olde English, you are also tasked with remembering the full names from the abbreviations. I disagree that this is OK. It's far from OK.

Given that this has been the practice followed from the very first publication of Shakespeare's plays, I fear you face an uphill struggle, Jon, to persuade people that you are right, and the 400 year history of Shakespearean publication is wrong .

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Again, RUBBISH! The names of the characters is again abbreviated. Who are these stupid people who think abbreviated character names is a good idea?

I was just letting folks that this version was also available for free in the U.S. -- even though it was hard to find on Amazon. I downloaded it, but I can see what you mean by abbreviations. I don't quite understand why that was necessary (even in the days of Linotype or however this book was originally typeset).

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Given that this has been the practice followed from the very first publication of Shakespeare's plays, I fear you face an uphill struggle, Jon, to persuade people that you are right, and the 400 year history of Shakespearean publication is wrong .

Didn't realize that. So the Riverside version (for free) might be a pretty good deal?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by sjfan

I can confirm, I have a normal ebook version of Oxford 2nd edition as well.

I've just read through the reviews on Amazon UK, and the reviews of the older Kindle edition are pretty bad, with almost all of them commenting on poor navigation and poor layout. I suspect that's why it's apparently been withdrawn from sale and replaced by this "Print Replica" version which (obviously) preserves the formatting of the original hardback at the price of requiring a tablet or PC to read it on.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Didn't realize that. So the Riverside version (for free) might be a pretty good deal?

The Riverside Shakespeare was, at one time, regarded as the "definitive" scholarly edition of Shakespeare (although that was for its scholarly annotation and notes, of course, which will presumably not be present in this free version). I'm sure the texts will be fine, although there are many free sources of "raw" text of Shakespeare's plays (PG, for example). It's basically a question of how comfortable you are with Shakespeare's use of language (can you manage OK without glosses?) and how good the formatting and navigation are (can you go directly to Act 3 Scene 2 of "Macbeth"? Is it easy to tell what's poetry and what's prose?).

[Plumadona]

Fifty years ago, when I was in 8th grade, we read Macbeth in class using Folger Edition paperbacks printed by a publisher that is now long gone. These were very popular as school editions at the time because they were inexpensive, had good introductory essays, and offered explanations and definitions on each facing page of text, making it very easy to read and enjoy the play. I’ve seen a few Folger Shakespeare Library editions sold as Kindle Books, but only for select plays. It would be amazing to have something along those lines for the complete works of Shakespeare, plays and all, but it seems anything like that is formatted for tablets and computers. Since most students don’t use e-readers, I guess that’s to be expected.

I would rather have a good complete collection on my Kindle Oasis and look up words on my phone than try to do extensive reading on a tablet. I have two decent tablets for reading (6” Fire and 8” Galaxy Tab A) that I bought for reading 3M books from the library, but I can only read on a tablet for so long before my eyes start getting tired. I’ll just get one of the inexpensive “complete works of” volumes. Love this discussion, though, and I appreciate all the suggestions.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Plumadona

Fifty years ago, when I was in 8th grade, we read Macbeth in class using Folger Edition paperbacks printed by a publisher that is now long gone. These were very popular as school editions at the time because they were inexpensive, had good introductory essays, and offered explanations and definitions on each facing page of text, making it very easy to read and enjoy the play. I’ve seen a few Folger Shakespeare Library editions sold as Kindle Books, but only for select plays. It would be amazing to have something along those lines for the complete works of Shakespeare, plays and all, but it seems anything like that is formatted for tablets and computers. Since most students don’t use e-readers, I guess that’s to be expected.

"School editions" of Shakespeare tend to be bowdlerised to remove the rude bits (and Macbeth has some quite astonishingly rude bits in it!). When I was in school it was Macmillan editions, which were very similar to the format you describe.

[Plumadona]

Originally Posted by HarryT

"School editions" of Shakespeare tend to be bowdlerised to remove the rude bits (and Macbeth has some quite astonishingly rude bits in it!). When I was in school it was Macmillan editions, which were very similar to the format you describe.

Thankfully, these were not abridged in any way nor were they marketed as “school editions.” I know what you mean, though. That sort of censorship did not happen in NYC public schools in those days, or at least, not in the schools I went to. On the other hand, libraries were very strict about “proper” or “suitable” books for young readers. Mary Poppins (all of the books) were available before the movie made them popular, but the Oz books were not considered quality reading and therefore unavailable in NYPL branches. If the librarians I grew up with could see the books available today, their heads would explode!

[sjfan]

Originally Posted by HarryT

"School editions" of Shakespeare tend to be bowdlerised to remove the rude bits (and Macbeth has some quite astonishingly rude bits in it!). When I was in school it was Macmillan editions, which were very similar to the format you describe.

The Folger Editions are legit unabridged editions, with modern spelling but otherwise faithful to original sources. They included detailed notes when they depart from the primary source text (usually done if the primary source text chosen has problems that other sources can fill in—e.g. if an early Quarto was used but is missing some passages).

The Folger editions tend to prefer early Quartos over the First Folio, which is different from the newer Oxford/RSC/Norton approach but similar to what Riverside and the earlier Globe/Cambridge editions (the source of most public-domain copies) do.

People who are really into the Bard can debate endlessly about which approach is better, but they're both legitimate scholarly approaches and it's not like you're getting an intentionally bowlderized version with one approach vs. the other.

Here's long-time Folger editor Barbara Mowat on the sort of decisions they make on a regular basis; they're mostly about choosing between the early available sources:

People seem fascinated by the decisions facing editors over, for example, whether Hamlet’s mother should be called “Gertrard” (as in 1604) or “Gertrude” (as in 1623), and whether it is “Puck” (according to Rowe) or “Robin Goodfellow” (as in the early printing)...so what is an editor to do? Does one replace “Gertrude” with “Gertrard”? My co-editor and I decided that this character lives today as Gertrude, and that to give her back her original name in our text would do too much violence to readers’ (and audiences’) rights.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I was just letting folks that this version was also available for free in the U.S. -- even though it was hard to find on Amazon.

Searching on the ASIN from the UK site on the US site brought it right up, which I have found to be a good technique when an ASIN is available.

I do agree that searching for a particular version of a product on amazon can be a very frustrating experience.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The Riverside Shakespeare was, at one time, regarded as the "definitive" scholarly edition of Shakespeare (although that was for its scholarly annotation and notes, of course, which will presumably not be present in this free version). I'm sure the texts will be fine, although there are many free sources of "raw" text of Shakespeare's plays (PG, for example). It's basically a question of how comfortable you are with Shakespeare's use of language (can you manage OK without glosses?) and how good the formatting and navigation are (can you go directly to Act 3 Scene 2 of "Macbeth"? Is it easy to tell what's poetry and what's prose?).

In this case it might be worth picking up the hard cover printed edition at a local (used) bookstore. Looks like Half Price Books (a small, used book chain based in Texas) has the hardcover printed edition for $3.50.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by rcentros

In this case it might be worth picking up the hard cover printed edition at a local (used) bookstore. Looks like Half Price Books (a small, used book chain based in Texas) has the hardcover printed edition for $3.50.

Definitely. Although it weighs approximately the same as a small child .