Disappointed with K3

jlmwrite · 09-26-2010, 12:00 AM

I've been watching the K3 posts for the past few weeks, and when I was in Target earlier this week I saw a graphite K3 demo -- and realized they had 'em in stock! I bought one home with me (and the wife still hasn't figured out I have a new toy). The e-ink still amazes me, it's unbelievably readable outside, and the page refresh beats the heck out of the competitors. I love Whispernet too. The form factor is just perfect, even thought the keyboard is barely usable.

But... How crude is the collections management? I've been using MobiPocket on my Tilt 2 (Windows phone) for over a year, and started using Kindle for PC not too long ago. MobiPocket on the PC has dozens of options for sorting and managing (segregating by author, or bookshelf view, or...) and Kindle for PC has the cool view with the book covers floating over the background.

The Kindle's management system is as plain, ugly, and boring as an old DOS menu. No way to view the book covers that I can find, no way to effectively manage collections by using embedded information, and on and on. I just can't describe how disappointed I am; I thought I was getting a state of the art piece of equipment, but what I have feels like I'm driving around a stripped down '76 Chevy Vega instead. To add insult, Amazon does its best to lock out users in a way that would make Steve Jobs proud, and I'm not very happy with the amount of information my Kindle sends back to Amazon without my permission.

I really want a little more "wow" in my collections management. At the very least, show me book cover thumbnails with the title and author info (and in a way that isn't cut off on the right margin when the combined title and author info is really long).

My Kindle might have to go back to Target and I'll just keep sideloading books onto my phone...

MrPLD · 09-26-2010, 12:03 AM

Have you tried using Calibre as your collection manager? I know it's not an on-Kindle application but thought I'd throw the suggestion your way; I could well be way offbase for this.

Paul.

IntegrityWolf · 09-26-2010, 12:06 AM

I'm sorry you are disappointed.

I think however, that the thumbnails of the covers wouldn't come out well anyway. It's just an e-ink screen. The Kindle's purpose is just to read and really, nothing else. It renders simple pictures/graphs just fine but nothing much else. I must admit, I do read manga on my kindle and it renders beautifully, but it's much bigger than a thumbnail.

jlmwrite · 09-26-2010, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPLD

Have you tried using Calibre as your collection manager? I know it's not an on-Kindle application but thought I'd throw the suggestion your way; I could well be way offbase for this.

Paul.

I use calibre exclusively to edit the metadata and ensure my cover art is correct (many purchased books have incorrect metadata, believe it or not) but that does me NO good whatsoever on my Kindle.

I don't hate my new Kindle; I'm just disappointed. I expected a lot more gee-whiz flash from the Kindle than from the outdated and apparently unsupported MobiPocket version on my phone. Certainly I assumed collections management would have some degree of sophistication!

vega07 · 09-26-2010, 12:30 AM

I agree with you wholeheartedly OP. Please send an email to Amazon. If they have enough people requesting a better GUI and collections management, they might oblige.

I would really love a bookshelf 3x3 view, so 9 books showing. There is enough screen space for it and I think it would look really nice.

carld · 09-26-2010, 12:37 AM

I think Amazon is following the "Keep it simple" rule. A list of books, with optional collections, is about as simple as you can get.

vega07 · 09-26-2010, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carld

I think Amazon is following the "Keep it simple" rule. A list of books, with optional collections, is about as simple as you can get.

It's not simple when you have 200+ books to organize and 20+ pages to go through.

Snorkledorf · 09-26-2010, 01:35 AM

I have to agree with you on the lack of a shelf view. The cover thumbnail shown on each book's item details page is perfectly readable and rather pretty, so the idea that the e-ink screen isn't up to the task is a red herring. Having a beautiful array of covers on every version of Kindle software except the one on the actual Kindle, is very frustrating in my opinion. (A lot of the books that Amazon sells have strange non-cover cover art for some reason too, but that's another problem itself.)

Before the Kindle OS 2.5 update last June we didn't even have the bare-bones collections feature that we have now, just a single endless list of books. So we are in a rather better position than before. It's just still not a very satisfying one yet, is all. But we can still hope for v3!

I still consider my K3 to be the best ebook reader out there, except for this software limitation (and its inability to show image-based PDFs/scanned books very cleanly, though arguably that might be a hardware limitation). It's just that there are clear places where it could be improved.

When I wrote to Amazon with a fairly thought-out list of improvements I'd like to see, they graciously replied and thanked me for it, so along with the room for improvement, there is also hope. Their hearts seem to be in the right place.

HarryT · 09-26-2010, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntegrityWolf

I'm sorry you are disappointed.

I think however, that the thumbnails of the covers wouldn't come out well anyway. It's just an e-ink screen. The Kindle's purpose is just to read and really, nothing else. It renders simple pictures/graphs just fine but nothing much else. I must admit, I do read manga on my kindle and it renders beautifully, but it's much bigger than a thumbnail.

I have to disagree, I'm afraid. The Bookeen Cybook devices use a thumbnail cover image as their primary library interface, and it works very well indeed. The new Sony devices also use cover images. There's no problem at all in using an eInk screen for this purpose.

carld · 09-26-2010, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vega07

It's not simple when you have 200+ books to organize and 20+ pages to go through.

I didn't say it couldn't be cumbersome, but it's still simple.

wongdong · 09-26-2010, 04:08 AM

Loool, man i completely agree with you. Kindles Hardware (including of course the screen) is really top notch IMHO. But the software is.. well.. crap.

The amazing thing is, that even their bookstore is supernice compared to the selection menu. The only thing i would need is one other option on top (Sort by: author, title, collection and FOLDER) Then i'd be happy.

btw. The first thing I did when i got my kindle was installing a custom screensaver (with the cover of the book I'm currently reading), and an English-German Dictionary (from dict.cc). After that i was somewhat pacified. If i can also get the folder structure to show (and filenames as titles), then i'm completely happy. Will be a matter of weeks i guess.

And best look at it that way: 97% of the time I use an ebook reader I am reading a book. For that, the screen (contrast, readability, speed etc..) matters. Thats very good on the kindle. 0.5% I'm looking up words on the dictionary since I'm not a native speaker (solved with dict.cc). 0.5% is choosing the next book to read (crap i admit) and 2% is other stuff (web? creating collections etc.).
Oh and 100% of the time when i'm NOT using it, it shows the picture i want.

In my optinion (and for that price!) I think we can be satisfied and overlook the shortcomings. And who knows... maybe Amazon will create better firmware some day ;-)

Oh and someday I met a random guy on the street who happened to have a kindle 3 and he mentioned something about buying ebooks, removing the DRM and share it (and the cost) with his buddy as he would also do with an ordinary book. Complete twisted morality if you ask me. But then again, its just hearsay ;-)

HarryT · 09-26-2010, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wongdong

If i can also get the folder structure to show (and filenames as titles), then i'm completely happy. Will be a matter of weeks i guess.

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. I see absolutely no reason that Amazon should suddenly provide a folder browser, given that they haven't done so in the 2 (?) years that the Kindle has been around.

church mouse · 09-26-2010, 04:39 AM

A coupe of years ago I remember being asked by Sony for my views on the 505 and I did suggest a cover flow (a la i-Tunes) would be nice.

However, in the intervening period I have increasingly felt such a facility, whilst visually impressive, would not be that useful. I have taken great care in Calibre to find nice book covers for my e-books, but when I actually seek to find a book I either look by author, title or tag. (Similarly, the media player software I now use on my music server does not display album covers either and I do not miss them).

Having switched to a Kindle from Sony, I cannot say I have missed seeing the book cover at all.

Now, an organisation structure which truly worked on metadata and tags, that would be nice!

pchrist7 · 09-26-2010, 04:49 AM

I agree that the K3 collection concept is not good enough.
It IS better than nothing, but ...
For MY purposes 2 levels of collections would be brilliant, making it possible to organize authors, and then series underneath.
Listing book in series order would be even more brilliant based on metadata.
Just my 50 øre (smalest danish currency so far)

Terisa de morgan · 09-26-2010, 05:11 AM

Duplicated comment.

09-26-2010, 12:00 AM	#1
jlmwrite Zealot Posts: 143 Karma: 13398 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Golden, Colorado Device: Samsung Tab S8.4, Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge	Disappointed with K3 I've been watching the K3 posts for the past few weeks, and when I was in Target earlier this week I saw a graphite K3 demo -- and realized they had 'em in stock! I bought one home with me (and the wife still hasn't figured out I have a new toy). The e-ink still amazes me, it's unbelievably readable outside, and the page refresh beats the heck out of the competitors. I love Whispernet too. The form factor is just perfect, even thought the keyboard is barely usable. But... How crude is the collections management? I've been using MobiPocket on my Tilt 2 (Windows phone) for over a year, and started using Kindle for PC not too long ago. MobiPocket on the PC has dozens of options for sorting and managing (segregating by author, or bookshelf view, or...) and Kindle for PC has the cool view with the book covers floating over the background. The Kindle's management system is as plain, ugly, and boring as an old DOS menu. No way to view the book covers that I can find, no way to effectively manage collections by using embedded information, and on and on. I just can't describe how disappointed I am; I thought I was getting a state of the art piece of equipment, but what I have feels like I'm driving around a stripped down '76 Chevy Vega instead. To add insult, Amazon does its best to lock out users in a way that would make Steve Jobs proud, and I'm not very happy with the amount of information my Kindle sends back to Amazon without my permission. I really want a little more "wow" in my collections management. At the very least, show me book cover thumbnails with the title and author info (and in a way that isn't cut off on the right margin when the combined title and author info is really long). My Kindle might have to go back to Target and I'll just keep sideloading books onto my phone...

09-26-2010, 01:35 AM	#8
Snorkledorf Blue. Not sad...just blue Posts: 218 Karma: 1267018 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Japan Device: Ridibooks Paper Pro	I have to agree with you on the lack of a shelf view. The cover thumbnail shown on each book's item details page is perfectly readable and rather pretty, so the idea that the e-ink screen isn't up to the task is a red herring. Having a beautiful array of covers on every version of Kindle software except the one on the actual Kindle, is very frustrating in my opinion. (A lot of the books that Amazon sells have strange non-cover cover art for some reason too, but that's another problem itself.) Before the Kindle OS 2.5 update last June we didn't even have the bare-bones collections feature that we have now, just a single endless list of books. So we are in a rather better position than before. It's just still not a very satisfying one yet, is all. But we can still hope for v3! I still consider my K3 to be the best ebook reader out there, except for this software limitation (and its inability to show image-based PDFs/scanned books very cleanly, though arguably that might be a hardware limitation). It's just that there are clear places where it could be improved. When I wrote to Amazon with a fairly thought-out list of improvements I'd like to see, they graciously replied and thanked me for it, so along with the room for improvement, there is also hope. Their hearts seem to be in the right place. Last edited by Snorkledorf; 09-26-2010 at 01:57 AM. Reason: er, make that "...hope for v4!" We're already at v3, aren't we...

09-26-2010, 05:11 AM	#15
Terisa de morgan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,235 Karma: 11768331 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Device: Kobo Clara/Aura One/Forma,XiaoMI 5, iPad, Huawei MediaPad, YotaPhone 2	Duplicated comment. Last edited by Terisa de morgan; 09-26-2010 at 05:17 AM.

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09-26-2010, 12:03 AM	#2
MrPLD Author's pet-geek Posts: 933 Karma: 1040670 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: North Queensland, Australia Device: Kindle 3 Wifi, Onyx Boox M96	Have you tried using Calibre as your collection manager? I know it's not an on-Kindle application but thought I'd throw the suggestion your way; I could well be way offbase for this. Paul.

09-26-2010, 12:06 AM	#3
IntegrityWolf ^_^ Posts: 43 Karma: 20 Join Date: Dec 2008 Device: Amazon Kindle Touch (Wi-Fi)	I'm sorry you are disappointed. I think however, that the thumbnails of the covers wouldn't come out well anyway. It's just an e-ink screen. The Kindle's purpose is just to read and really, nothing else. It renders simple pictures/graphs just fine but nothing much else. I must admit, I do read manga on my kindle and it renders beautifully, but it's much bigger than a thumbnail.

09-26-2010, 12:30 AM	#5
vega07 Enthusiast Posts: 48 Karma: 50 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Kindle 2	I agree with you wholeheartedly OP. Please send an email to Amazon. If they have enough people requesting a better GUI and collections management, they might oblige. I would really love a bookshelf 3x3 view, so 9 books showing. There is enough screen space for it and I think it would look really nice.

09-26-2010, 12:37 AM	#6
carld Wizard Posts: 2,698 Karma: 4748723 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Kindle Paperwhite	I think Amazon is following the "Keep it simple" rule. A list of books, with optional collections, is about as simple as you can get.

09-26-2010, 04:08 AM	#11
wongdong Connoisseur Posts: 87 Karma: 90 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Austria Device: Pocketbook 360, Pocketbook 903	Loool, man i completely agree with you. Kindles Hardware (including of course the screen) is really top notch IMHO. But the software is.. well.. crap. The amazing thing is, that even their bookstore is supernice compared to the selection menu. The only thing i would need is one other option on top (Sort by: author, title, collection and FOLDER) Then i'd be happy. btw. The first thing I did when i got my kindle was installing a custom screensaver (with the cover of the book I'm currently reading), and an English-German Dictionary (from dict.cc). After that i was somewhat pacified. If i can also get the folder structure to show (and filenames as titles), then i'm completely happy. Will be a matter of weeks i guess. And best look at it that way: 97% of the time I use an ebook reader I am reading a book. For that, the screen (contrast, readability, speed etc..) matters. Thats very good on the kindle. 0.5% I'm looking up words on the dictionary since I'm not a native speaker (solved with dict.cc). 0.5% is choosing the next book to read (crap i admit) and 2% is other stuff (web? creating collections etc.). Oh and 100% of the time when i'm NOT using it, it shows the picture i want. In my optinion (and for that price!) I think we can be satisfied and overlook the shortcomings. And who knows... maybe Amazon will create better firmware some day ;-) Oh and someday I met a random guy on the street who happened to have a kindle 3 and he mentioned something about buying ebooks, removing the DRM and share it (and the cost) with his buddy as he would also do with an ordinary book. Complete twisted morality if you ask me. But then again, its just hearsay ;-)

09-26-2010, 04:39 AM	#13
church mouse Evangelist Posts: 482 Karma: 5277078 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: UK Device: Kindle Voyage, Kobo Clara HD, Kobo H2O, Boox Poke 2	A coupe of years ago I remember being asked by Sony for my views on the 505 and I did suggest a cover flow (a la i-Tunes) would be nice. However, in the intervening period I have increasingly felt such a facility, whilst visually impressive, would not be that useful. I have taken great care in Calibre to find nice book covers for my e-books, but when I actually seek to find a book I either look by author, title or tag. (Similarly, the media player software I now use on my music server does not display album covers either and I do not miss them). Having switched to a Kindle from Sony, I cannot say I have missed seeing the book cover at all. Now, an organisation structure which truly worked on metadata and tags, that would be nice!

09-26-2010, 04:49 AM	#14
pchrist7 Addict Posts: 385 Karma: 6514 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Denmark Device: Kindle 3 3G+Wifi, Oasis	I agree that the K3 collection concept is not good enough. It IS better than nothing, but ... For MY purposes 2 levels of collections would be brilliant, making it possible to organize authors, and then series underneath. Listing book in series order would be even more brilliant based on metadata. Just my 50 øre (smalest danish currency so far)

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