10-25-2017, 02:38 PM | #91 | |
Resident Curmudgeon
Posts: 73,987
Karma: 128903378
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
|
Quote:
So I see no reason not to have staff who know what they are doing. |
|
10-25-2017, 05:35 PM | #92 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 7,195
Karma: 70314280
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2
|
Quote:
|
|
10-25-2017, 06:10 PM | #93 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 7,195
Karma: 70314280
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2
|
Quote:
Before the printing press, all books were hand copied by scribes. Copying books is what many monasteries did. The famous library of Alexandria was built by requiring anyone who entered Egypt with a "book" (technically they didn't have books as we think of them) to allow the library to make a copy of the work. Frequently, the library kept the original and give the owner the copy. The original copyrights was simply a Royal decree, like most monopolies of the time. A printer might have the sole right to print the Bible. Another printer might have the sole right to print a different book. Like most government granted monopolies, there was no property in any sense of the word. It was simply a royal edict that could be given and removed at whim. If you want to put copyright in perspective, it helps to look at how things worked at the time of the Constitution. Franklin initially made his fame as a newspaper publisher and to help circulation, he would write various articles under an assortment of pseudonyms. Those articles became quite popular, so other publishers would copy the articles and print them in their papers. From a practical point of view, there was little that Franklin could do to stop it. One of the great truths is that ideas are not property. They are not physical, but more to the point, for all practical purposes, there is no way an individual can keep others from copying a give work or idea. I can keep someone from taking my house or my car, and I can keep someone from taking a physical copy of a book, but once I sell the book, I no longer control it. Simply stating that it is property doesn't make it so, anymore that me saying that I've 6'5" makes me 6'5". |
|
10-25-2017, 06:21 PM | #94 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 7,195
Karma: 70314280
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2
|
That's not true. The Romans first codified their law in 450 BC in the 12 tablets. Tribunes were elected by the people as a counter balance to the Senate. They were never random people in the street. Roman laws were much like modern laws They were proposed and then voted on in a rather convoluted manner by the people of Rome.
|
10-25-2017, 07:25 PM | #95 | |
....
Posts: 1,547
Karma: 18068960
Join Date: May 2012
Device: ....
|
Quote:
Yes, I do not live in the USA, and we do not have a Bill of Rights, nor do we even have a Constitutional document as the constitution is represented in the whole body of legislation, court decisions and conventions, and in being a representative democracy. This may all mean that we, and those in other countries like us, cannot "feel that law exists to codify rights with which we are already imbued, like the codification of the rights to free speech, worship, etc." like you say US citizens do, but I suspect not. Also, somehow we managed to sign the Berne Convention over 50 years before the USA did. I have nowhere said nor implied that there should be no copyright; going by your second to last paragraph in the snip above you seem to have created in your mind that I did. I am well aware that some with strong attachments to the status quo see even talk of change as being a threat of complete demolition. But in this thread you will see that all I have been about is that their should be rights on both sides and that those seem to me to be very lopsided towards rights holders compared to those of everyone else. I have no need to address in any length your firm words (that sounds better than calling them a "rant" ) regarding the protections provided to right holders, because I have pointed out above that I have nowhere said that right holders should be without rights. But it does seem to me that while copyright law exists to foster creativity it does not seem to me that valuable creativity would be stifled with change. Furthermore, that laudable justification of fostering has over time been distorted by those with vested interests mostly in their own pockets (and allowing myself to poke sticks in eyes , those vested interests being predominantly in the USA ). |
|
10-25-2017, 07:46 PM | #96 | |
Readaholic
Posts: 5,139
Karma: 89858112
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: South Georgia
Device: Surface Pro 6 / Galaxy Tab A 8"
|
Quote:
Apache |
|
10-25-2017, 08:02 PM | #97 | |
....
Posts: 1,547
Karma: 18068960
Join Date: May 2012
Device: ....
|
Quote:
In my own country an annual payment equivalent to approximately US$20 per annum has to be paid in order to maintain a patent. So similar to what is suggested for authors. In the USA in order to maintain a patent the maintenance cost, as I understand it, varies according to the size of the entity and is paid not annually but after 3.5, 7.5 and 11.5 years - if one annualizes the maintenance cost over the 20 year term of a patent then for the smallest entities (who pay the least, others pay much more) it comes to US$150.50 per annum. So it looks like we have that impoverished crazed inventors working in their garages can or have to manage to pay those fees, even though I have no reason to believe they have better means to pay fees than impoverished crazed authors do typing away at the kitchen table. But, it seems that the crazed authors, if comment on this thread is typical, are driven to scream and claim hunger and nakedness will result at the mention of maybe they pay just $20 per annum to maintain copyright. I sense an exaggerated sense of entitlement and claims there. On top of the maintenance fee, a patent applicant is also faced with the high cost of attorneys, patent examination, etc. Those are, of course, are not relevant at all to copyright cases, but somehow crazed inventors seem to manage to pay them as well as the maintenance fee. Last edited by AnotherCat; 10-25-2017 at 08:04 PM. |
|
10-25-2017, 10:08 PM | #98 | |
Wizard
Posts: 3,108
Karma: 60231510
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Oasis, Huwei Ascend Mate 7
|
Quote:
http://digitalcommons.law.umaryland....89&context=mlr |
|
10-25-2017, 11:40 PM | #99 |
Guru
Posts: 604
Karma: 12345678
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada
Device: none
|
I'm stuck on a couple of thoughts. The first one is that if we are treating copyrights as property does/should the state own them if an heir can't be found? The second is that having to renew copyrights is problematical unless there's a simple way to check registrations as well as an understanding about international requirements (having to periodically renew the registration in multiple countries would be burdensome regardless of fees).
BTW when I think of the value of the public domain my first thought is of historians and social scientists being able to reproduce sufficiently old books, notes, diaries and letters without the need to find and negotiate with heirs. In this case it's not the societal value of any individual work that matters but rather what can be determined from many. On the level of individual works society as a whole may not suffer if a random book without a clear heir was unavailable but if all such books from the Illiad to the current day were unavailable I think we would all agree on the loss. At some point works should enter the public domain for the benefit of the public, the only question to be debated is when and how. |
10-26-2017, 04:26 AM | #100 | |
Gnu
Posts: 1,222
Karma: 15625359
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Device: BeBook,JetBook Lite,PRS-300-350-505-650,+ran out of space to type
|
Quote:
Berne is still 50 years after dead, so not going to make much difference to orphaned works. |
|
10-26-2017, 04:27 AM | #101 | |
Gnu
Posts: 1,222
Karma: 15625359
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Device: BeBook,JetBook Lite,PRS-300-350-505-650,+ran out of space to type
|
Quote:
Mostly as a easy way to sort out orphaned works which can't be published because no one knows who currently owns them. The other simple option is registration is free for the original copyright holder and the charge is only for people trying to make money after they have died (Someone would have to fund the massive multi-country copyright database though). |
|
10-26-2017, 09:01 AM | #102 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 7,195
Karma: 70314280
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2
|
Quote:
Imagine if you would, if you could get a copy of any book every copyrighted in the US? Who cares about the cost? If free bugs you, then why not change it so that once a book goes into public domain, then anyone can print it, but they have to pay a fee, some fair percentage of the price of the book, or a set fee, whichever is higher, to the library of Congress. While the author or the author's spouse is alive the fee goes to them (you can also throw in while the author's children are below the age of maturity if you like), afterwards it goes to the upkeep of the Library of Congress. |
|
10-26-2017, 09:12 AM | #103 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 7,195
Karma: 70314280
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2
|
Quote:
|
|
10-26-2017, 09:35 AM | #104 | |
Readaholic
Posts: 5,139
Karma: 89858112
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: South Georgia
Device: Surface Pro 6 / Galaxy Tab A 8"
|
Quote:
Apache Apache |
|
10-26-2017, 09:54 AM | #105 | |
Wizard
Posts: 3,032
Karma: 52740263
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New England
Device: PW 1, 2, 3, Voyage, Oasis 2 & 3, Fires, Aura HD, iPad
|
Quote:
The point is that someone has to actively do something to keep the copyright. Again, I don't care about getting a book for free--I'd rather pay for a nicely formatted copy. I just don't want the books to be lost because the rights holders don't care about them. (or nobody can find them) Shari |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Piracy Irony: Copyright firm fined after stealing music for anti-piracy ad. | spindlegirl | News | 4 | 07-21-2012 06:41 AM |
What is piracy? | Giggleton | General Discussions | 284 | 06-30-2012 12:31 PM |
Anti-Piracy group wants to ban you from talking about piracy | Nate the great | News | 39 | 06-06-2012 05:20 AM |
Piracy goes 3D! | HansTWN | News | 16 | 02-16-2012 02:55 PM |
Free Report (Kindle) - Economic Report of the President | koland | Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) | 5 | 02-13-2010 12:07 PM |