Why Kobo didn't focus only on the U.S., home turf of Amazon

[shalym]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Well, actually you could install Kobo's PC software and get your books that way without ADE being involved (and possibly directly off the device as well, not sure?). Using Kobo for PC along with Obok would be not much different I think than buying from Amazon and using Kindle for PC for downloads (what I do) along with Alf. BTW, I assume you mean make an account with Adobe, not Sony.

Sorry, you're right, I did mean Adobe.

I don't use Kindle for PC, I download directly from the Manage My Content page on Amazon's site. I used to have Kindle for PC installed, back when it was a way to manage collections, but now that the collections on the PC app no longer work that way, I don't have it on my PC anymore.

No. It works in more countries than just the US, but is limited to certain countries and is limited to you having an Aura One (you can use it on other devices, but only if the account is also set up with an Aura One).

Shari

[ottdmk]

Originally Posted by shalym

PS...By the way...if I DID want to use a public library to read books, that works on my Kindle, as well, since I'm in the US. I know that it doesn't work that way in other countries, but then again, Overdrive on Kobo doesn't work in all countries either, does it?

Shari

Overdrive integration, which is only on the Kobo Aura One, only works in some countries, it's true. However you can use Adobe Digital Editions to put Overdrive books on any Kobo device, and I believe that works anywhere Overdrive does. I've made extensive use of that functionality. It's one of the things I love about my Kobo.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ottdmk

Overdrive integration, which is only on the Kobo Aura One, only works in some countries, it's true. However you can use Adobe Digital Editions to put Overdrive books on any Kobo device, and I believe that works anywhere Overdrive does. I've made extensive use of that functionality. It's one of the things I love about my Kobo.

Just a side note. When you use ADE you want version 2.0.1 because OD needs at least that version ADE. And all later version ADE can download eBooks with a new unbreakable DRM that I have no idea if a Kobo will work with or not.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by shalym

...and if I want to back up the purchases and make them really "mine", I have to install ADE and create an account with Sony. No thank you. With Amazon, there is no middleman required.

Interesting comment. With Kobo, I just sync the book from my Kobo library to my ereader. I do have to use ADE if I download a DRMed ebook to my computer but currently about 30% of the ebooks I purchase from Kobo are DRMed. My purchases from Amazon are 50% DRMed. In either case, Calibre and Apprentice Alf take care of the issue.

Out of a perhaps morbid curiosity, why do you insist on referring to Sony? They've been out of the ebook business for years now. Or is that a typo and you meant Adobe? Not neccesary if you are using the Kobo desktop application since you refer to needing obok.

Originally Posted by shalym

I own a Kobo, and I use it. I also occasionally buy books from Kobo, but only if they are DRM free. Yes...I know about the obok plugin, and I've used it. I would probably use it again if the Kobo store were the ONLY place I could get a book. But you will never convince me that buying from Kobo is as seamless as buying from Amazon.

No real difference between purchasing on a Kindle or purchasing on a Kobo unless you want to get into the argument that downloading over 3G is superior to downloading over WiFi. For either device, you appear to need a WiFi connection to browse the store. No need to worry about DRM.

Why would you need the obok plugin unless you are planning to convert the downloaded book to another format after downloading it using the Kobo desktop application. Given the insistence you have on using your computer, browse for, purchase and download the ebook from Kobo to your computer using your computer's web browser. This will involve ADE for DRMed epubs but non-DRMed epubs will download directly.

Originally Posted by shalym

PS...By the way...if I DID want to use a public library to read books, that works on my Kindle, as well, since I'm in the US. I know that it doesn't work that way in other countries, but then again, Overdrive on Kobo doesn't work in all countries either, does it?

Care to name a country other than the US where you can borrow a Kindle format ebook from a public library? Given that Overdrive does not have a presence in all countries, it follows that Kobo will not be able to use Overdrive integration in all countries but quite a few more countries where Overdrive has a presence -- 60 or so at the last count I've seen which gives Kobo a distinct advantage in that arena.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Interesting comment. With Kobo, I just sync the book from my Kobo library to my ereader. I do have to use ADE if I download a DRMed ebook to my computer but currently about 30% of the ebooks I purchase from Kobo are DRMed. My purchases from Amazon are 50% DRMed. In either case, Calibre and Apprentice Alf take care of the issue.

Out of a perhaps morbid curiosity, why do you insist on referring to Sony? They've been out of the ebook business for years now. Or is that a typo and you meant Adobe? Not neccesary if you are using the Kobo desktop application since you refer to needing obok.

If you look at my next post, I acknowledged that I erred when I said "Sony". I actually meant Adobe. I do not have, and do not wish to have, an account with Adobe.

No real difference between purchasing on a Kindle or purchasing on a Kobo unless you want to get into the argument that downloading over 3G is superior to downloading over WiFi. For either device, you appear to need a WiFi connection to browse the store. No need to worry about DRM.

I never mentioned buying from the device. I buy from my PC. I'm also not sure why you think that a person can't browse the Kindle store over 3G--as far as I know, the Kindle store and wikipedia can both be accessed over 3G, unless something has changed recently.

Why would you need the obok plugin unless you are planning to convert the downloaded book to another format after downloading it using the Kobo desktop application. Given the insistence you have on using your computer, browse for, purchase and download the ebook from Kobo to your computer using your computer's web browser. This will involve ADE for DRMed epubs but non-DRMed epubs will download directly.

Did you read what I wrote? I explicitly said that I buy DRM free books from Kobo. As for using ADE to remove DRM from books, again, I will not create an account with Adobe.

Care to name a country other than the US where you can borrow a Kindle format ebook from a public library? Given that Overdrive does not have a presence in all countries, it follows that Kobo will not be able to use Overdrive integration in all countries but quite a few more countries where Overdrive has a presence -- 60 or so at the last count I've seen which gives Kobo a distinct advantage in that arena.

Again...you just aren't reading what I wrote. I explicitly said "since I'm in the US". I know that Overdrive doesn't work for Kindle in other countries, which is why I said that. One of the things that I was addressing was the fact that on a Kindle in the US, library books go to the device automatically, without needing to be downloaded to a computer first. The Aura One can do that, but not in all countries, and you HAVE to have an Aura One registered to the account in order for it to work. By the way...unless something has changed, the Overdrive sync doesn't work in all countries, even if Overdrive is available in that country.

Shari

[jhowell]

......

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Just a side note. When you use ADE you want version 2.0.1 because OD needs at least that version ADE. And all later version ADE can download eBooks with a new unbreakable DRM that I have no idea if a Kobo will work with or not.

I'm pretty sure that's only a problem when you want to remove DRM. Kobo says they support Adobe's DRM and don't list a specific version. Or if the book in question is an EPUB3. For some stupid reason Kobo doesn't support EPUB3 in non-kepubs so using ADE DRM'd EPUB3s can end up with a broken experience(Maybe you can rename them .kepub.epub later to get around that?). I just ended up removing the DRM anyways.

Do any of the EPUB stores even use this new DRM? Kobo and Google Play still seem to give the old one in my experience.

Having used both the buying experience on the devices/apps is basically identical. Absolutely not a reason to chose one or the other. Using oBoK plugin is arguably easier than Amazon now that everything is in it's own folder and has gibberish names in Kindle PC.

Amazon has more polished software with better dictionary support but worse font/layout options. I like small fonts and basically only one font on the smallest setting was usable for me. The rest were too large.

On Kobo there's enough font sizes that I can use whatever font. Kobo also has way better devices for the money. The voyage is $300 in Canada. For better lighting and fake page turn buttons. Still the same crappy 4GB storage and 6" screen size.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by salamanderjuice

I'm pretty sure that's only a problem when you want to remove DRM. Kobo says they support Adobe's DRM and don't list a specific version. Or if the book in question is an EPUB3. For some stupid reason Kobo doesn't support EPUB3 in non-kepubs so using ADE DRM'd EPUB3s can end up with a broken experience(Maybe you can rename them .kepub.epub later to get around that?). I just ended up removing the DRM anyways.

Do any of the EPUB stores even use this new DRM? Kobo and Google Play still seem to give the old one in my experience.

Having used both the buying experience on the devices/apps is basically identical. Absolutely not a reason to chose one or the other. Using oBoK plugin is arguably easier than Amazon now that everything is in it's own folder and has gibberish names in Kindle PC.

Amazon has more polished software with better dictionary support but worse font/layout options. I like small fonts and basically only one font on the smallest setting was usable for me. The rest were too large.

On Kobo there's enough font sizes that I can use whatever font. Kobo also has way better devices for the money. The voyage is $300 in Canada. For better lighting and fake page turn buttons. Still the same crappy 4GB storage and 6" screen size.

When didn't Amazon have gibberish names in the PC storage? Though if I remember right, it isn't actually gibberish but the book number.

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

When didn't Amazon have gibberish names in the PC storage? Though if I remember right, it isn't actually gibberish but the book number.

Never I don't think but it's worse when everything is in it's own folder. Either way it's unreadable to me as a human. So it may as well be gibbersh.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by shalym

I never mentioned buying from the device. I buy from my PC. I'm also not sure why you think that a person can't browse the Kindle store over 3G--as far as I know, the Kindle store and wikipedia can both be accessed over 3G, unless something has changed recently.

Interesting. The one Kindle I've played with lately would not browse the store until the firmware was updated (to 5.3.7.3 via 5.3.2.1 and 5.1.0). After the update, it insisted on WiFi being connected before browsing. The first generation of touchscreen Kindle. This might be due to being in Canada or setup issues by the owner.

Originally Posted by shalym

Did you read what I wrote? I explicitly said that I buy DRM free books from Kobo. As for using ADE to remove DRM from books, again, I will not create an account with Adobe.

ADE does not remove DRM, it does allow you to download the ebook file from the server using the .acsm link but the file is still DRMed. Given that I don't consider a DRMed ebook even when downloaded to my computer as being a "backup", Apprentice Alf is very useful for creating a meaningful backup of my ebooks.

Originally Posted by shalym

Again...you just aren't reading what I wrote. I explicitly said "since I'm in the US". I know that Overdrive doesn't work for Kindle in other countries, which is why I said that. One of the things that I was addressing was the fact that on a Kindle in the US, library books go to the device automatically, without needing to be downloaded to a computer first. The Aura One can do that, but not in all countries, and you HAVE to have an Aura One registered to the account in order for it to work. By the way...unless something has changed, the Overdrive sync doesn't work in all countries, even if Overdrive is available in that country.

Nor on a Kobo Aura One do I need to download the book using a computer. It is automatically synced. Once I have checked out the book either on my KA1 or from the library web interface, it will also automatically sync to my other Kobo ereaders and apps. Not very different from using a Kindle other than being able to do this in countries outside the USA. And yes, I did read what you wrote --what I was belabouring with a heavy blunt object is the point that Kobo already offers this integration outside the USA at no extra charge to the library unlike adding Kindle ebooks which requires extra costs and very likely violation of privacy laws in some countries.

Possibly a few pokes at an USA-centric view were part of my motivation. I do find the attitude of quite a few posters in these forums indicating that for them, the world begins and ends within the borders of the continental USA to be amusing. We all need to find our amusement where we can.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by salamanderjuice

I'm pretty sure that's only a problem when you want to remove DRM. Kobo says they support Adobe's DRM and don't list a specific version. Or if the book in question is an EPUB3. For some stupid reason Kobo doesn't support EPUB3 in non-kepubs so using ADE DRM'd EPUB3s can end up with a broken experience(Maybe you can rename them .kepub.epub later to get around that?). I just ended up removing the DRM anyways.

More correctly Adobe's RMSDK which Kobo uses to render epubs does not support enough features of epub3 to work with some of the newer ebooks that make use of the more advanced epub3 features, for instance, those required for Japanese language ebooks. This is why Kobo renders epubs with RMSDK and .kepub.epubs (epub3) with the ACCESS NetFront Bookviewer EPUB edition. For a better experience with kepubs, instead of renaming the file, use the KoboTouchExtended driver to convert to .kepub.epub when transferring to your ereader leaving the .epubs in your library. This adds in the mass of spans for more accurate highlighting, setting the cover image properly in the metadata, etc.

Originally Posted by salamanderjuice

Do any of the EPUB stores even use this new DRM? Kobo and Google Play still seem to give the old one in my experience.

I ran into one site that used the new Adobe DRM when I had ADE 4.5 installed. When I went back to ADE 2.0.1 and re-downloaded the epub, it downloaded with the old and long broken DRM. I transferred the ebook to my KA1 using ADE 4.5 and was able to read it on the device.

Originally Posted by salamanderjuice

Having used both the buying experience on the devices/apps is basically identical. Absolutely not a reason to chose one or the other. Using oBoK plugin is arguably easier than Amazon now that everything is in it's own folder and has gibberish names in Kindle PC.

If everything is in it's own folder, that would indicate a newer version of the Kindle app (for PC and Mac). You are likely to see issues if you try to remove DRM from those files. As for the gibberish file names? They seem to match the number displayed for the book when I look in the Kindle store as part of the URL or the mobi-asin number. See this sticky from the Calibre forum for more information Dealing with Kindle for PC/Mac 1.19 and KFX in calibre on issues with the newer Amazon software.

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by DNSB

More correctly Adobe's RMSDK which Kobo uses to render epubs does not support enough features of epub3 to work with some of the newer ebooks that make use of the more advanced epub3 features, for instance, those required for Japanese language ebooks. This is why Kobo renders epubs with RMSDK and .kepub.epubs (epub3) with the ACCESS NetFront Bookviewer EPUB edition. For a better experience with kepubs, instead of renaming the file, use the KoboTouchExtended driver to convert to .kepub.epub when transferring to your ereader leaving the .epubs in your library. This adds in the mass of spans for more accurate highlighting, setting the cover image properly in the metadata, etc.



I ran into one site that used the new Adobe DRM when I had ADE 4.5 installed. When I went back to ADE 2.0.1 and re-downloaded the epub, it downloaded with the old and long broken DRM. I transferred the ebook to my KA1 using ADE 4.5 and was able to read it on the device.



If everything is in it's own folder, that would indicate a newer version of the Kindle app (for PC and Mac). You are likely to see issues if you try to remove DRM from those files. As for the gibberish file names? They seem to match the number displayed for the book when I look in the Kindle store as part of the URL or the mobi-asin number. See this sticky from the Calibre forum for more information Dealing with Kindle for PC/Mac 1.19 and KFX in calibre on issues with the newer Amazon software.

But why is Adobe's RMSDK incapable of reading EPUB3s? ADE is perfectly capable of doing it so Adobe obviously has support for it too. The books I had trouble with were specifically Japanese releases from the Google Play store. IMO it's still pretty crappy regardless of whose fault it is. Kobo claims Adobe EPUB DRM support and EPUB3 support but you can't do them both at the same time. Misleading I think.

I know about KoboTouchExtended, but if the book is DRM locked I don't think it can touch the file? So without removing the DRM the only thing I could think you could do is rename it.

I also know about the Kindle issue but all I ever use Kindle PC for is Japanese books and to my knowlege no Japanese .kfx books exist yet. Everything still downloads as azw3(Even new releases post 1.19) and I'm too lazy to change.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by salamanderjuice

But why is Adobe's RMSDK incapable of reading EPUB3s? ADE is perfectly capable of doing it so Adobe obviously has support for it too. The books I had trouble with were specifically Japanese releases from the Google Play store. IMO it's still pretty crappy regardless of whose fault it is. Kobo claims Adobe EPUB DRM support and EPUB3 support but you can't do them both at the same time. Misleading I think.

The version of the RMSDK used in recent Kobo firmware IS capable of reading epub3's. But, as DNSB stated, it doesn't support all the features. Or as many features as the Kobo does for kepubs. I don't know what ePub3 elements are supported in each of these. Or what is supported in each version of the RMSDK.

As to ADE, which version are you talking about? I use 2.0.1 and I'm pretty sure it doesn't support ePub3. Or, if it does, it's just treating it as an ePub2.

I know about KoboTouchExtended, but if the book is DRM locked I don't think it can touch the file? So without removing the DRM the only thing I could think you could do is rename it.

You are right about the KoboTouchExtended driver, but, if the book has Adobe DRM, renaming it won't help. The name change triggers use of the kepub renderer which doesn't use the RMSDK at all and hence cannot open books with Adobe DRM.

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by davidfor

The version of the RMSDK used in recent Kobo firmware IS capable of reading epub3's. But, as DNSB stated, it doesn't support all the features. Or as many features as the Kobo does for kepubs. I don't know what ePub3 elements are supported in each of these. Or what is supported in each version of the RMSDK.

As to ADE, which version are you talking about? I use 2.0.1 and I'm pretty sure it doesn't support ePub3. Or, if it does, it's just treating it as an ePub2.

You are right about the KoboTouchExtended driver, but, if the book has Adobe DRM, renaming it won't help. The name change triggers use of the kepub renderer which doesn't use the RMSDK at all and hence cannot open books with Adobe DRM.

Well that version of RMSDK isn't capable of handling vertical text Japanese at all at least. If your lucky a picture and some punctuation marks will load. Loading them on DRM free with KoboTouchExtended they seem to work just as well as one's I've got from Kobo's store.

ADE 4.5.2 supports them. They are all vertical text Japanese books or fixed layout and they work fine, you even get page numbers which Kobo's eInk line doesn't seem to support for Japanese for some reason(I can see them in the desktop and mobile apps though) even for their own kepubs.

[johnnyb]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Kobo has better hardware and firmware than Amazon.