The M96 vs. the Sony DPT-S1?

neonnoodle · 05-10-2015, 09:27 AM

I'm in the market for a large-screen e-reader with pen input capabilities.
At this point, I feel as though I have three options:

1. Sony DPT-S1
2. Onyx Boox M96
3. Waiting for the Netronix hardware to be marketed in some form or another.

Intended Use: I proofread for several hours a day, and LCD screens are hell on my eyes. I'd like to be able to mark up the documents I proofread, either in a program like OneNote or as PDFs in whatever proprietary program comes with the device. Ideally I'd like to be able to export my annotations back to my work computer through something like Dropbox/Box/OneDrive.

What little I've seen in videos of the Sony DPT, it looks like a highly polished device, though limited. By comparison, the M96 looks quite versatile; however, the more I read these threads, the more I wonder exactly how much frustration is really required to get the M96 working. Is the hardware identical between the Amazon and Booxtor versions? (That is, is it a simple matter of flashing the firmware?)

I'm not afraid of hacking around a bit. I used to have an Asus EA800 and I enjoyed the fun of messing around in the Linux OS of that device, and I even did a little bit of coding to modify a drawing application for it. Is the M96 similar in terms of learning curve?

halox · 05-10-2015, 12:02 PM

Re: Marking up PDFs - right out of the box, you'll be able to scribble on PDFs with your m96. For that kind of annotation, you'll be good, for strike throughs and whatnot. If you want to add real NOTES in there, it'll be more cumbersome. The on-screen keyboard isn't responsive enough to add a lot of text at a time.

You can export the PDF with notes and open on your PC. All of your scribbles come across as some sort of vector art.

Caveat - the pen only really works well with the default PDF reader (Neo Reader on the m96). I've tried using it on other PDF programs, like Adobe Reader, Xodo, etc - but they're all incredibly sluggish with the pen. The default PDF reader, however, is a champ and works really, really well.

To recap: for quick scribbles and whatnot on a PDF - m96 does the job (I do this all the time, but I'm not sharing notes with anyone, so it's okay for me).

For extensive mark-ups, red lines, notes, comments - you'll want a tablet/laptop for the responsiveness. Way too frustrating on the m96.

The m96 is an amazing device - like nothing else. YMMV as you can see on this forum. Mine works really well, and does everything I need it to do. But - then again - I've rooted mine and added Tasker and have a lot of experience messing around with Android tablets. Since you seem like you can tinker with your gadgets, I'd say give it a shot. I bought mine mostly for reading PDFs on a tablet - and for that, this thing is amazing.

neonnoodle · 05-11-2015, 09:47 AM

Thanks for the response. I've decided to go for it. Pretty low risk, as I can always return via Amazon.

Does the NeoReader app open epub files? Or just PDF? And can I do a blank PDF notebook to just write notes in?

nknouf · 05-11-2015, 10:24 AM

I've found that ezPDFReader works best for me on my M96, because it embeds the annotations in the PDF itself (perhaps the built-in reader does that as well, but I didn't want to take any chances). Response is quite fast, in my usage at least. Regarding a notebook, I've used Quill, which is open source with an open file format (but isn't really maintained any more, and has a tendency to crash on my M96) that can easily be exported or converted to PDF, or Papyrus, which allows for automatic export to PDF and uploading to cloud services, so I know that I won't be stuck in a proprietary format.

neonnoodle · 05-11-2015, 10:32 AM

Papyrus sounds very good. Another dumb question: is there any pressure sensitivity with the stylus?

halox · 05-11-2015, 11:29 AM

NeoReader does open epubs (or maybe it's OnyxReader - it's hard to tell sometimes - you'll understand when you get the tablet ... but you can open the files).

Pressure sensitivity - nope.

Blank notebook PDF - yes, you can do this. I set up an easy 10 page notebook in word, then exported to PDF. This was my preferred method, because the pen really is fastest with its native applications (though I haven't tried ezPDFReader - I'll check it out).

Rizla · 05-11-2015, 11:53 AM

Depending what you want to do, I think your issue will be the software. If you want to do in-depth editing, you might be better slaving the device to a computer and editing the text directly. I am not aware of any Android software that will match the text editing abilities of Windows word-processors. Android just isn't designed to do that stuff. If someone knows different, please let me know.

neonnoodle · 05-11-2015, 12:13 PM

I don't need to re-edit the text itself, just write notes in the margins and underline things. I do my edits back at the desktop. :-)

Rizla · 05-11-2015, 12:22 PM

I suggest you check the reviews and the Q&A section for the device on Amazon. People are doing multiple things with the device there, including write and edit code on it.

Also see this thread: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=257570

The OP says the A2 refresh mode is not great, but they may not concern you as he is trying to use it as a monitor.

neonnoodle · 05-11-2015, 01:41 PM

Yes, I plan to use A2 refresh mode if possible. I think that in some cases, it would be nice to attach a Bluetooth keyboard and use Google docs or some other text editor to write simple documents to be formatted later. This is something like the e-paper typewriter "Hemingwrite" that has been in development, no?

The slower feel and lack of multimedia capabilities (aside from text-to-speech) are part of the appeal for me.

halox · 05-11-2015, 02:25 PM

You won't use A2 refresh mode. I promise you. Unless you like looking at layers and layers of half opaque garbage.

Luckily, the regular refresh is fine for what you're doing.

Google Drive/Docs should work fine for whatever you need. And you can always install the Google "swype" keyboard, which is actually amazing on this device. I posted this video a while back. Again, this video is regular refresh, not A2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyyDYan1WVM

Rizla · 05-11-2015, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halox

You won't use A2 refresh mode. I promise you. Unless you like looking at layers and layers of half opaque garbage.

Luckily, the regular refresh is fine for what you're doing.

Google Drive/Docs should work fine for whatever you need. And you can always install the Google "swype" keyboard, which is actually amazing on this device. I posted this video a while back. Again, this video is regular refresh, not A2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyyDYan1WVM

Can you describe the A2 refresh mode?

neonnoodle · 05-13-2015, 01:22 PM

Well, I spent a while trying to get the M96 to work for me, and I found it just too fussy. I'm planning to return it. Not because of any of the firmware issues -- that was a very simple matter.

The problem is that Android is just not designed to do what the device is capable of/limited to. The M96 offers the illusion of great potential (Google Play apps, Bluetooth support, etc.) but the execution of these other features is marred, usually by no fault of the device itself.

It was unpredictable to figure out what the various buttons and joystick would do in different apps. Touch gestures via the stylus are awkward when they work at all. Many apps are simply not functional with the e-ink screen, which is a shame. Handwriting input works well in the NeoReader and OScribble apps, but the closed ecosystem of the reader itself makes it too annoying to get those annotations in and out to other programs.

By contrast, I got the rare chance to spend some time with the Sony DPT-S1. Someone in my office has one and let me borrow it for a day or two. The Sony is far more elegant and polished. It is limited in its functionality, but flawless for actually performing that function. It does one thing and does it superbly well.

kuskro · 05-13-2015, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neonnoodle

Well, I spent a while trying to get the M96 to work for me, and I found it just too fussy. I'm planning to return it. Not because of any of the firmware issues -- that was a very simple matter.

The problem is that Android is just not designed to do what the device is capable of/limited to. The M96 offers the illusion of great potential (Google Play apps, Bluetooth support, etc.) but the execution of these other features is marred, usually by no fault of the device itself.

It was unpredictable to figure out what the various buttons and joystick would do in different apps. Touch gestures via the stylus are awkward when they work at all. Many apps are simply not functional with the e-ink screen, which is a shame. Handwriting input works well in the NeoReader and OScribble apps, but the closed ecosystem of the reader itself makes it too annoying to get those annotations in and out to other programs.

By contrast, I got the rare chance to spend some time with the Sony DPT-S1. Someone in my office has one and let me borrow it for a day or two. The Sony is far more elegant and polished. It is limited in its functionality, but flawless for actually performing that function. It does one thing and does it superbly well.

Our M96 can be workable with some tweaks and some apps. I use my m96 professionally with this apps:

1.web browser: puffin browser + assistive zoom pro (also, lightning+ browser)
2.file explorer: root explorer pro + wifi file transfer pro
3.cpu controller: no-frills
4.remote control: remote ripple pro or vnc
5.torrent: flud pro
6.keyboard: swiftkey + external keyboard helper
7.office: google apps or office suite pro or documents to go
8.spelling: quickspell
9.dictionary: colordict
10.screen rotation: ultimate rotation pro
11.sound: bass booster pro
12.app remover: systemapp remover
13.handwriting: myscript stylus beta
14.system backup: titanium backup pro
15.cache cleaner: app cache cleaner pro
16.voices: acapela TTS voices
17.task app: gtasks pro
18.ereader and epub: ezpdf pro and moon+ reader pro
19.launcher: lightning launcher pro (version 12.0.1 r2021)

Best.

isaact33 · 06-14-2015, 03:31 PM

i agree with neonnoodle i regret buying the m96 and wish i spent the extra money and bought the sony( eventhough its twice as much). the reason i say that is sometimes the device would aggravate me Even if you mange to work out the device it is VERY buggy. for instance a lot of times the menu would hang and the only way to access it is by scribbling on the corner and then the menu would work. Although there is a lot of options to use with android but doing something else other than reading such as browsing the web will bring down the battery life 2-4 hours. I would rather have a device that would just work as intended rather than being overworked just to get the device to do what its intended. I guess i wish onyx would come out with a device that can at least iron out the bugs for the basic functionalities such as pdfs and no sudden drops in battery life out of the box.

05-10-2015, 09:27 AM	#1
neonnoodle Junior Member Posts: 6 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2015 Device: Onyx Boox M96 or Sony DPTS-1	The M96 vs. the Sony DPT-S1? I'm in the market for a large-screen e-reader with pen input capabilities. At this point, I feel as though I have three options: 1. Sony DPT-S1 2. Onyx Boox M96 3. Waiting for the Netronix hardware to be marketed in some form or another. Intended Use: I proofread for several hours a day, and LCD screens are hell on my eyes. I'd like to be able to mark up the documents I proofread, either in a program like OneNote or as PDFs in whatever proprietary program comes with the device. Ideally I'd like to be able to export my annotations back to my work computer through something like Dropbox/Box/OneDrive. What little I've seen in videos of the Sony DPT, it looks like a highly polished device, though limited. By comparison, the M96 looks quite versatile; however, the more I read these threads, the more I wonder exactly how much frustration is really required to get the M96 working. Is the hardware identical between the Amazon and Booxtor versions? (That is, is it a simple matter of flashing the firmware?) I'm not afraid of hacking around a bit. I used to have an Asus EA800 and I enjoyed the fun of messing around in the Linux OS of that device, and I even did a little bit of coding to modify a drawing application for it. Is the M96 similar in terms of learning curve?

05-11-2015, 12:22 PM	#9
Rizla Member Retired Posts: 3,183 Karma: 11721895 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Nook STR (rooted) & Sony T2	I suggest you check the reviews and the Q&A section for the device on Amazon. People are doing multiple things with the device there, including write and edit code on it. Also see this thread: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=257570 The OP says the A2 refresh mode is not great, but they may not concern you as he is trying to use it as a monitor. Last edited by Rizla; 05-11-2015 at 12:24 PM.

05-11-2015, 02:25 PM	#11
halox Member Posts: 19 Karma: 12 Join Date: Mar 2015 Device: Onyx Boox M96	You won't use A2 refresh mode. I promise you. Unless you like looking at layers and layers of half opaque garbage. Luckily, the regular refresh is fine for what you're doing. Google Drive/Docs should work fine for whatever you need. And you can always install the Google "swype" keyboard, which is actually amazing on this device. I posted this video a while back. Again, this video is regular refresh, not A2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyyDYan1WVM Last edited by halox; 05-11-2015 at 02:28 PM.

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05-10-2015, 12:02 PM	#2
halox Member Posts: 19 Karma: 12 Join Date: Mar 2015 Device: Onyx Boox M96	Re: Marking up PDFs - right out of the box, you'll be able to scribble on PDFs with your m96. For that kind of annotation, you'll be good, for strike throughs and whatnot. If you want to add real NOTES in there, it'll be more cumbersome. The on-screen keyboard isn't responsive enough to add a lot of text at a time. You can export the PDF with notes and open on your PC. All of your scribbles come across as some sort of vector art. Caveat - the pen only really works well with the default PDF reader (Neo Reader on the m96). I've tried using it on other PDF programs, like Adobe Reader, Xodo, etc - but they're all incredibly sluggish with the pen. The default PDF reader, however, is a champ and works really, really well. To recap: for quick scribbles and whatnot on a PDF - m96 does the job (I do this all the time, but I'm not sharing notes with anyone, so it's okay for me). For extensive mark-ups, red lines, notes, comments - you'll want a tablet/laptop for the responsiveness. Way too frustrating on the m96. The m96 is an amazing device - like nothing else. YMMV as you can see on this forum. Mine works really well, and does everything I need it to do. But - then again - I've rooted mine and added Tasker and have a lot of experience messing around with Android tablets. Since you seem like you can tinker with your gadgets, I'd say give it a shot. I bought mine mostly for reading PDFs on a tablet - and for that, this thing is amazing.

05-11-2015, 09:47 AM	#3
neonnoodle Junior Member Posts: 6 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2015 Device: Onyx Boox M96 or Sony DPTS-1	Thanks for the response. I've decided to go for it. Pretty low risk, as I can always return via Amazon. Does the NeoReader app open epub files? Or just PDF? And can I do a blank PDF notebook to just write notes in?

05-11-2015, 10:24 AM	#4
nknouf Enthusiast Posts: 34 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2014 Device: Onyx Boox M96 Universe	I've found that ezPDFReader works best for me on my M96, because it embeds the annotations in the PDF itself (perhaps the built-in reader does that as well, but I didn't want to take any chances). Response is quite fast, in my usage at least. Regarding a notebook, I've used Quill, which is open source with an open file format (but isn't really maintained any more, and has a tendency to crash on my M96) that can easily be exported or converted to PDF, or Papyrus, which allows for automatic export to PDF and uploading to cloud services, so I know that I won't be stuck in a proprietary format.

05-11-2015, 10:32 AM	#5
neonnoodle Junior Member Posts: 6 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2015 Device: Onyx Boox M96 or Sony DPTS-1	Papyrus sounds very good. Another dumb question: is there any pressure sensitivity with the stylus?

05-11-2015, 11:29 AM	#6
halox Member Posts: 19 Karma: 12 Join Date: Mar 2015 Device: Onyx Boox M96	NeoReader does open epubs (or maybe it's OnyxReader - it's hard to tell sometimes - you'll understand when you get the tablet ... but you can open the files). Pressure sensitivity - nope. Blank notebook PDF - yes, you can do this. I set up an easy 10 page notebook in word, then exported to PDF. This was my preferred method, because the pen really is fastest with its native applications (though I haven't tried ezPDFReader - I'll check it out).

05-11-2015, 11:53 AM	#7
Rizla Member Retired Posts: 3,183 Karma: 11721895 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Nook STR (rooted) & Sony T2	Depending what you want to do, I think your issue will be the software. If you want to do in-depth editing, you might be better slaving the device to a computer and editing the text directly. I am not aware of any Android software that will match the text editing abilities of Windows word-processors. Android just isn't designed to do that stuff. If someone knows different, please let me know.

05-11-2015, 12:13 PM	#8
neonnoodle Junior Member Posts: 6 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2015 Device: Onyx Boox M96 or Sony DPTS-1	I don't need to re-edit the text itself, just write notes in the margins and underline things. I do my edits back at the desktop. :-)

05-11-2015, 01:41 PM	#10
neonnoodle Junior Member Posts: 6 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2015 Device: Onyx Boox M96 or Sony DPTS-1	Yes, I plan to use A2 refresh mode if possible. I think that in some cases, it would be nice to attach a Bluetooth keyboard and use Google docs or some other text editor to write simple documents to be formatted later. This is something like the e-paper typewriter "Hemingwrite" that has been in development, no? The slower feel and lack of multimedia capabilities (aside from text-to-speech) are part of the appeal for me.

05-13-2015, 01:22 PM	#13
neonnoodle Junior Member Posts: 6 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2015 Device: Onyx Boox M96 or Sony DPTS-1	Well, I spent a while trying to get the M96 to work for me, and I found it just too fussy. I'm planning to return it. Not because of any of the firmware issues -- that was a very simple matter. The problem is that Android is just not designed to do what the device is capable of/limited to. The M96 offers the illusion of great potential (Google Play apps, Bluetooth support, etc.) but the execution of these other features is marred, usually by no fault of the device itself. It was unpredictable to figure out what the various buttons and joystick would do in different apps. Touch gestures via the stylus are awkward when they work at all. Many apps are simply not functional with the e-ink screen, which is a shame. Handwriting input works well in the NeoReader and OScribble apps, but the closed ecosystem of the reader itself makes it too annoying to get those annotations in and out to other programs. By contrast, I got the rare chance to spend some time with the Sony DPT-S1. Someone in my office has one and let me borrow it for a day or two. The Sony is far more elegant and polished. It is limited in its functionality, but flawless for actually performing that function. It does one thing and does it superbly well.

06-14-2015, 03:31 PM	#15
isaact33 Member Posts: 20 Karma: 2112466 Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: USA Device: Onyx boox m96 & Boox Max 2	i agree with neonnoodle i regret buying the m96 and wish i spent the extra money and bought the sony( eventhough its twice as much). the reason i say that is sometimes the device would aggravate me Even if you mange to work out the device it is VERY buggy. for instance a lot of times the menu would hang and the only way to access it is by scribbling on the corner and then the menu would work. Although there is a lot of options to use with android but doing something else other than reading such as browsing the web will bring down the battery life 2-4 hours. I would rather have a device that would just work as intended rather than being overworked just to get the device to do what its intended. I guess i wish onyx would come out with a device that can at least iron out the bugs for the basic functionalities such as pdfs and no sudden drops in battery life out of the box.

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