A thought regarding eInk ghosting

twowheels · 11-18-2024, 05:39 PM

It seems that every review of an eInk device focuses heavily on ghosting, especially reviews from people who are still heavily in the pbook camp.

Recently I was thinking about this and realized that nearly every single paper book that I've ever read had a bit of "ghosting" showing through from the print on the other side of the page. Being that I've not opened a paper book in a long time I went to my bookshelf and looked through dozens of books -- only the most expensive glossy hard-cover books avoided this, the vast majority of them had words showing through from the other side that was far worse than any ghosting I've ever seen on an ebook reader.

I think that's going to be my response the next time somebody complains about ghosting, which is almost completely a non-issue these days.

Sirtel · 11-18-2024, 05:48 PM

I've always had the full refresh set to every page on all my ereaders. No ghosting.

Aleron Ives · 11-18-2024, 07:16 PM

Ghosting is so minimal on Carta panels that I have full refreshes set to every 64 pages. As usual, YMMV.

twowheels · 11-18-2024, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I've always had the full refresh set to every page on all my ereaders. No ghosting.

As do I, I don’t mind the flash, it’s no worse than turning the page in a paper book — less disruptive, IMO.

twowheels · 11-18-2024, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleron Ives

Ghosting is so minimal on Carta panels that I have full refreshes set to every 64 pages. As usual, YMMV.

I wasn’t complaining about ghosting, rather pointing out that those who do seem to completely overlook that paper books suffer it even more.

jackm8 · 11-18-2024, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twowheels

It seems that every review of an eInk device focuses heavily on ghosting, especially reviews from people who are still heavily in the pbook camp.

Recently I was thinking about this and realized that nearly every single paper book that I've ever read had a bit of "ghosting" showing through from the print on the other side of the page. Being that I've not opened a paper book in a long time I went to my bookshelf and looked through dozens of books -- only the most expensive glossy hard-cover books avoided this, the vast majority of them had words showing through from the other side that was far worse than any ghosting I've ever seen on an ebook reader.

I think that's going to be my response the next time somebody complains about ghosting, which is almost completely a non-issue these days.

It would be great if someone figured a way to emulate real see-through of paper books someday. I particularly love my 4th gen Kindle just because of ghosting. For some reasons it's really pronounced when reading in the sun. It gives cheap paperback feel to the reader. My Pocketbooks ghosting is annoying in one aspect, though. For some reason, it ghosts the cover when power button is pressed with text that was on screen. It doesn't if I leave it to turn off by itself.

twowheels · 11-19-2024, 08:35 AM

Interesting -- I wasn't advocating for more ghosting, just pointing out that the complaints are somewhat silly, especially coming from those who are pointing to it to advocate for paper books.

You may be the first person I've seen who liked the ghosting.

Gormagon · 11-19-2024, 09:28 AM

When reading plain text books on my Meebook I usually have no problem with ghosting, that's why I disabled the refresh on these occasions. Though ghosting is terrible when using a dark mode on eink displays.

What really annoys me on eink displays is the refresh, which is, at least for me, quite often necessary when reading/viewing something with pictures (or in dark mode). But then I like reading on matte LCD screens much more these days. Colours look like I expect, no ghosting, no annoying refresh and I can really use a dark mode on Librera or Koreader and reduce the brightness directly in Librera beyond the device's default minimal value (or use an app like Dim Easy) exactly to my likings. At night I find the minmal front light brightness with 1 bar on the Meebook to low and adding another bar a little too bright. I really would like to have somthing like a half bar more as option.

Sirtel · 11-19-2024, 09:34 AM

Well, as I said, I have full refresh on every page and I no longer see the black flash at all - my brain just filters it out. So there's nothing to annoy me. I never use the dark mode, though - I expect the white flash in a dark room would be much more noticeable. But I don't read in a dark room and so don't need the dark mode.

DNSB · 11-19-2024, 04:35 PM

Strictly speaking, it's not a single flash. The screen is written black-white-black-current state. Most of the current ereaders with Carta displays use eInk Regal waveform technology to reduce the need for flashing to remove ghosting.

Barty · 11-19-2024, 05:47 PM

I get your point, but:

Books don't unfold perfectly flat. That doesn't mean I shouldn't mind if my e-reader's screen is bent.

On the other hand, I wouldn't like it if my book died because I dropped it

We can have different expectations for different things. There's no contradiction

Snorre · 01-05-2025, 10:14 PM

The moment when you realize; it's not a bug, it's a feature!
They thought about everything.

Solitaire1 · 02-09-2025, 01:58 AM

I haven't noticed much ghosting on my Nook Glowlight 4, and it occasionally does flash but it's not an issue for me. Concerning what I've heard, a good setting to add to e-ink e-readers is one where you indicate how many page flips will trigger a screen flash. Then you can adjust it as needed.

John F · 02-09-2025, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solitaire1

I haven't noticed much ghosting on my Nook Glowlight 4, and it occasionally does flash but it's not an issue for me. Concerning what I've heard, a good setting to add to e-ink e-readers is one where you indicate how many page flips will trigger a screen flash. Then you can adjust it as needed.

For those who are unaware, some ereaders do have this feature. And some for every chapter.

theducks · 02-09-2025, 04:51 PM

I had not powered on my EZReader (c2010) for some time. I knew the battery was shot, but I had removed that.
I powered on, but like a 1950's car (laminated windows), the edges were foggy and the old text would not go away. The current screen just bled into the old images.
So, I put it into the electronics cycle bin.

Looks like these displays need constant use or they calcify (just like my joints)

11-18-2024, 05:39 PM	#1
twowheels Wizard Posts: 1,853 Karma: 13432974 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Kobo Clara HD, iPad Pro 10", iPhone 15 Pro, Boox Note Max	A thought regarding eInk ghosting It seems that every review of an eInk device focuses heavily on ghosting, especially reviews from people who are still heavily in the pbook camp. Recently I was thinking about this and realized that nearly every single paper book that I've ever read had a bit of "ghosting" showing through from the print on the other side of the page. Being that I've not opened a paper book in a long time I went to my bookshelf and looked through dozens of books -- only the most expensive glossy hard-cover books avoided this, the vast majority of them had words showing through from the other side that was far worse than any ghosting I've ever seen on an ebook reader. I think that's going to be my response the next time somebody complains about ghosting, which is almost completely a non-issue these days.

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11-18-2024, 05:48 PM	#2
Sirtel Grand Sorcerer Posts: 12,789 Karma: 236462758 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Estonia Device: Kobo Sage & Libra 2	I've always had the full refresh set to every page on all my ereaders. No ghosting.

11-18-2024, 07:16 PM	#3
Aleron Ives Wizard Posts: 1,602 Karma: 16300090 Join Date: Sep 2022 Device: Kobo Libra 2	Ghosting is so minimal on Carta panels that I have full refreshes set to every 64 pages. As usual, YMMV.

11-19-2024, 08:35 AM	#7
twowheels Wizard Posts: 1,853 Karma: 13432974 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Kobo Clara HD, iPad Pro 10", iPhone 15 Pro, Boox Note Max	Interesting -- I wasn't advocating for more ghosting, just pointing out that the complaints are somewhat silly, especially coming from those who are pointing to it to advocate for paper books. You may be the first person I've seen who liked the ghosting.

11-19-2024, 09:28 AM	#8
Gormagon monstrous mythical beast Posts: 52 Karma: 3494030 Join Date: May 2023 Device: Tab Ultra C, Meebook P78 Pro, TCL 50 Pro Nxtpaper, TCL Nxtpaper11	When reading plain text books on my Meebook I usually have no problem with ghosting, that's why I disabled the refresh on these occasions. Though ghosting is terrible when using a dark mode on eink displays. What really annoys me on eink displays is the refresh, which is, at least for me, quite often necessary when reading/viewing something with pictures (or in dark mode). But then I like reading on matte LCD screens much more these days. Colours look like I expect, no ghosting, no annoying refresh and I can really use a dark mode on Librera or Koreader and reduce the brightness directly in Librera beyond the device's default minimal value (or use an app like Dim Easy) exactly to my likings. At night I find the minmal front light brightness with 1 bar on the Meebook to low and adding another bar a little too bright. I really would like to have somthing like a half bar more as option.

11-19-2024, 09:34 AM	#9
Sirtel Grand Sorcerer Posts: 12,789 Karma: 236462758 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Estonia Device: Kobo Sage & Libra 2	Well, as I said, I have full refresh on every page and I no longer see the black flash at all - my brain just filters it out. So there's nothing to annoy me. I never use the dark mode, though - I expect the white flash in a dark room would be much more noticeable. But I don't read in a dark room and so don't need the dark mode.

11-19-2024, 04:35 PM	#10
DNSB Bibliophagist Posts: 43,515 Karma: 165170836 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Vancouver Device: Kobo Sage, Libra Colour, Lenovo M8 FHD, Paperwhite 4, Tolino epos	Strictly speaking, it's not a single flash. The screen is written black-white-black-current state. Most of the current ereaders with Carta displays use eInk Regal waveform technology to reduce the need for flashing to remove ghosting.

11-19-2024, 05:47 PM	#11
Barty doofus Posts: 2,542 Karma: 13088847 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kindle Voyage	I get your point, but: Books don't unfold perfectly flat. That doesn't mean I shouldn't mind if my e-reader's screen is bent. On the other hand, I wouldn't like it if my book died because I dropped it We can have different expectations for different things. There's no contradiction

01-05-2025, 10:14 PM	#12
Snorre Junior Member Posts: 6 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jan 2025 Device: Kobo Libra Colour	The moment when you realize; it's not a bug, it's a feature! They thought about everything.

02-09-2025, 01:58 AM	#13
Solitaire1 Samurai Lizard Posts: 14,731 Karma: 69500000 Join Date: Nov 2009 Device: NookColor, Nook Glowlight 4	I haven't noticed much ghosting on my Nook Glowlight 4, and it occasionally does flash but it's not an issue for me. Concerning what I've heard, a good setting to add to e-ink e-readers is one where you indicate how many page flips will trigger a screen flash. Then you can adjust it as needed.

02-09-2025, 04:51 PM	#15
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 30,787 Karma: 59840450 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	I had not powered on my EZReader (c2010) for some time. I knew the battery was shot, but I had removed that. I powered on, but like a 1950's car (laminated windows), the edges were foggy and the old text would not go away. The current screen just bled into the old images. So, I put it into the electronics cycle bin. Looks like these displays need constant use or they calcify (just like my joints)