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Old 08-08-2011, 04:44 AM   #31
fantasyfan
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Nice Review Bookworm_Girl!

On the Esther-John Jarndyce relationship, it's interesting that Esther, before the marriage proposal does see JJ as a father figure and even says that to him. I recall that when she does so, JJ is rather upset about that! {though he hides his disappointment} I think it's clear in hindsight that Dickens had no intention of having their personal relationship develop along romantic lines.

I keep wondering if there is some emotional echo of Dickens' own relationship with his sister-in-law whom he idolised and who was much younger than he. (However, she never got married}
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:10 PM   #32
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On the Esther-John Jarndyce relationship, it's interesting that Esther, before the marriage proposal does see JJ as a father figure and even says that to him. I recall that when she does so, JJ is rather upset about that! {though he hides his disappointment} I think it's clear in hindsight that Dickens had no intention of having their personal relationship develop along romantic lines.

I keep wondering if there is some emotional echo of Dickens' own relationship with his sister-in-law whom he idolised and who was much younger than he. (However, she never got married}
Yes, I thought it was clear that by the end Esther would marry Allan. I do agree that Esther's character is modeled after his sister-in-law, Georgina. Esther's devotion / duty to home life is one of her greatest virtues in John's eyes. She is presented with the trust of the basket of household keys nearly immediately after she arrives to his home. Also, instead of being upset that Allan is better suited for her, John promotes their marriage and offers them a lovely home which is modeled with all of Esther's quirks in the way of setting up the gardens and interior. To pay such attention to those details shows how much he values them. All of her pet nicknames emphasize this part of her character too.

I did a little research of Dickens's biography last year when I read the fiction novel Drood by Dan Simmons. Drood is about the last 5 years of Dickens's life after the Staplehurst rail crash and up to his death while writing The Mystery of Edwin Drood as told through the eyes of his friend / colleague Wilkie Collins. This book relates how he had a terrible marriage to Caroline and how important his sister-in-law was to the management of his household and the raising of his many children.

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Old 08-08-2011, 03:31 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl;1693193
I did a little research of Dickens's biography last year when I read the fiction novel [I
Drood[/I] by Dan Simmons. Drood is about the last 5 years of Dickens's life after the Staplehurst rail crash and up to his death while writing The Mystery of Edwin Drood as told through the eyes of his friend / colleague Wilkie Collins. This book relates how he had a terrible marriage to Caroline and how important his sister-in-law was to the management of his household and the raising of his many children.
That's very interesting. Have you by any chance read the biography Charles Dickens by Una Pope-Hennessy? It's not all that recent, being published in 1945 by Chatto & Windus with a paperback edition in 1970 by Penguin. One of the things that really impressed me was Pope-Hennessy's analysis of the unravelling of Dickens' marriage and the part played in it by Georgina.
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:45 PM   #34
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I confess my research was mostly via internet sites, and I also downloaded a collection of letters between Dickens and Collins that I think I found on Google Books. I found this website link to be very good for everything Dickens. The Family and Friends page is especially detailed.
http://charlesdickenspage.com/
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:26 PM   #35
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Tossing another thought into one aspect of the most current discussion . . .

I had always read that David Copperfield was considered that most autobiographical of Dickens' novels. That and the character of Agnes Wickfield in that novel was modeled on the love of Dickens' life. Consider the ending from David Copperfield:

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And now, as I close my task, subduing my desire to linger yet, these faces fade away. But one face, shining on me like a Heavenly light by which I see all other objects, is above them and beyond them all. And that remains.

I turn my head, and see it, in its beautiful serenity, beside me. My lamp burns low, and I have written far into the night; but the dear presence, without which I were nothing, bears me company.

O Agnes, O my soul, so may thy face be by me when I close my life indeed; so may I, when realities are melting from me, like the shadows which I now dismiss, still find thee near me, pointing upward!
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:36 AM   #36
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It is sad to draw to the end of a good read. Soon I will have to leave all my friends at Bleak House and London for the riots, downgrades and defaults of the real world.
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:52 AM   #37
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It is sad to draw to the end of a good read. Soon I will have to leave all my friends at Bleak House and London for the riots, downgrades and defaults of the real world.
Or you could just go to the library (or right here on MR) and borrow another world for a while.
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:08 AM   #38
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It is sad to draw to the end of a good read. Soon I will have to leave all my friends at Bleak House and London for the riots, downgrades and defaults of the real world.
Or you could just go to the library (or right here on MR) and borrow another world for a while.
Yes my solution to the current situation is to start on a new book as soon as I finish the last. Though with the performance of the stock market over the last couple of weeks I feel I should perhaps make time to read a non-Fiction book that has been on my TBR list for a long while; The Myth of the Rational Market: A History of Risk, Reward, and Delusion on Wall Street by Justin Fox.
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:57 PM   #39
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It is sad to draw to the end of a good read. Soon I will have to leave all my friends at Bleak House and London for the riots, downgrades and defaults of the real world.
Yes, it certainly was a great read! Dickens will always give value for the time and effort spent on his novels. Whatever its flaws, I really enjoyed Bleak House. A wonderful humanity does come through.
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Old 08-13-2011, 04:37 PM   #40
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Yes, it certainly was a great read! Dickens will always give value for the time and effort spent on his novels. Whatever its flaws, I really enjoyed Bleak House. A wonderful humanity does come through.
you know what, I did not enjoy it very much while reading it, but I've noticed that it has stayed with me quite a bit - these rather "flat" characters after all put together form quite a picture. And the discussion here has greatly improved my "post-read musings", so a bing thank you to all of you!
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