Dell Streak: $300 w/contract, $550 w/o contract

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

"So if Apple can do it, then so can the rest."

Apple could sell their gadgets without any margin at all. And still would be highly profitable via iTunes. Dell doesn't have that additional cashflow.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

There's a lucrative market for pocket-sized WiFi tablets pretty much being ignored by Android. Since its introduction 3 years ago, the iPod touch is approaching 50 million devices sold and who knows how many apps.

Doesn't Android want a share of that market?

But than Android's multimedia capabilities have to increase manifold.
And: Why are iPod touch and iPhone successful? iTunes certainly has a major impact on that. Being able to purchase apps, movies, TV shows and now even eBooks through a single platform certainly is a stroke of genius.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by petermillard

Unlocked iPhone4 from Apple is £499 ($775) here in the UK, whereas 'no contract' (but still locked to O2 ) Dell Streak is £399 ($620).

I don't see a niche for the Streak either - and perhaps nobody else does, hence the less than stellar sales (UK sales quoted as "modest and immaterial" - here). Is it a phone or a tablet? TabletPhone? PhonePad? <shrug>

Pete

Actually the Streak is the absolute perfect size for a phone. The maximum screen size that still comfortably fits in my pants' front pocket. And when you browse and read -- the difference to those miniature 3.5 inchers is just amazing. Almost double the screen real estate! No scrolling around or zooming in and out all the time. It is just that Dell stinks at marketing such products. Once people see the screen side by side with other phones the "oh it's too big" comments quickly disappear.

Actually Android syncs quite well with Itunes.

The streak is selling quite well, as you can tell from the lively accessories after market.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

But than Android's multimedia capabilities have to increase manifold.
And: Why are iPod touch and iPhone successful? iTunes certainly has a major impact on that. Being able to purchase apps, movies, TV shows and now even eBooks through a single platform certainly is a stroke of genius.

There's nothing stopping Google from doing the same thing.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

There's nothing stopping Google from doing the same thing.

Yes. But that's of no use for Dell and other manufacturers.
Apple is designing the hardware AND delivering the platform. It's the combination -all from a single source- that separates them from the others.
Google will (already does) have their revenue. But Dell only has a single source of revenue stream...

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

Apple could sell their gadgets without any margin at all. And still would be highly profitable via iTunes. Dell doesn't have that additional cashflow.

Then they're gonna lose.

I want a quality 7" Android tablet (16GB min), but there's no way I'm going to pay more than $400 for it. If push comes to shove, I'll get a new netbook for $250.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

Yes. But that's of no use for Dell and other manufacturers.
Apple is designing the hardware AND delivering the platform. It's the combination -all from a single source- that separates them from the others.
Google will (already does) have their revenue. But Dell only has a single source of revenue stream...

That's too bad. But if they can't compete at Apple's level, then they need to quit now; because they won't be successful.

Maybe it's time for Google to jump back in and contract with HTC to make tablets (4", 7", 10") for them. Then Google can open up stores to sell them in.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

That's too bad. But if they can't compete at Apple's level, then they need to quit now; because they won't be successful.

Maybe it's time for Google to jump back in and contract with HTC to make tablets (4", 7", 10") for them. Then Google can open up stores to sell them in.

I guess this all comes down to mindset.
Apple originally has been a manufacturer - and that's still an integral part of their business. They want to sell (and build) iPads and iPhones. And iTunes is a nice vehicle to do so.
Google originally has been a software company. I don't think, there's real enthusiasm (yet) in selling hardware (with way lower margins)...
In my opinion, there's a single advantage for Google: Their Android OS can run on various OEMs. If one doesn't like manufacturer A, he still can opt for B or C.
With Apple...you either love or hate them...
If Google plays that card right and finds the right 2 or 3 partners, they'll be extremely tough competition for Apple.
I don't see a single manufacturer being able to compete with Apple for now. Nokia for example is losing ground, they've simply rested too long on their former successes. My personal guess: Without strategic partnerships, Nokia will be history in 5 years. This won't happen to Google of course...

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Remember, the 32GB iPhone 4 costs Apple about $215 to manufacture. The iPod touch is even less, since it has cheaper and fewer features.

So if Apple can do it, then so can the rest.

BTW: I'm always sceptic about such figures. $ 215 may be the manufacturing costs. But do they include R&D? If I compare Apple to my employer, their R&D spent should be in the range of $ 4 billion (!!) per year. Spread this over their number of units.
And their overhead costs (sales, administration, marketing, ...) will be in the range of 15% to 20%. And taxes. And...
Hardware manufacturers usually need Gross Margins in the range of 40% to 50%, to end up with about 5% EBIT.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Then they're gonna lose.

I have no idea of Dell's over all strategy of course.
But I guess, their idea is not (in short terms) competing with Apple's figures.
For them it probably is just a nice add-on to their stagnating core business.
Probably Apple started the same with the first iPod. Back then, probably no one would have imagined that Apple from "close to chapter 11" would rise to such figures as today...

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

BTW: I'm always sceptic about such figures. $ 215 may be the manufacturing costs. But do they include R&D?

Of course not. The point is, if Apple sells an unsubsidized iPhone for $700 ($215 manufacturing cost) and an iPod touch $300 (~$200 manufacturing cost); then Android makers need to do the same to remain competitive.

Take the 16GB WiFi iPad, Apple's cost to make is $230. They sell it for $500. The 3G versions (with no mandated contracts) cost an additional $28 to make ($258) and sell for an additional $130 ($630).

This is what Android makers are up against. If they can't compete price wise in this arena, then they need to quit now. I guarantee I won't be buying Android if they can't get their act together. The only thing a tablet has going for it over a netbook is portability (lighter weight, smaller size). Otherwise, a netbook has better specs and will do more.

If my choice is a crippled iPad (no expansion ports, no expandable memory, sealed battery) or an overpriced Android; then I'll continue using a netbook. For $250, it's a no brainer.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Of course not. The point is, if Apple sells an unsubsidized iPhone for $700 ($215 manufacturing cost) and an iPod touch $300 (~$200 manufacturing cost); then Android makers need to do the same to remain competitive.

Take the 16GB WiFi iPad, Apple's cost to make is $230. They sell it for $500. The 3G versions (with no mandated contracts) cost an additional $28 to make ($258) and sell for an additional $130 ($630).

This is what Android makers are up against. If they can't compete price wise in this arena, then they need to quit now. I guarantee I won't be buying Android if they can't get their act together. The only thing a tablet has going for it over a netbook is portability (lighter weight, smaller size). Otherwise, a netbook has better specs and will do more.

If my choice is a crippled iPad (no expansion ports, no expandable memory, sealed battery) or an overpriced Android; then I'll continue using a netbook. For $250, it's a no brainer.

Except that it's not all just about hardware. It's the apps, they customer responsiveness and satisfaction, network coverage/reliability, the development community, availability, etc.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Except that it's not all just about hardware. It's the apps, they customer responsiveness and satisfaction, network coverage/reliability, the development community, availability, etc.

Then why do they bother? If they can't sell at Apple's prices or below, then they'll fail. Price is almost everything for most people when it comes to consumer goods.

[kennyc]

That's exactly my point, it's not all about the hardware/hardware price. It's about features, reliability etc. This is not like selling fruit and veggies.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by kennyc

That's exactly my point, it's not all about the hardware/hardware price. It's about features, reliability etc.

Since there isn't much difference feature-wise, price becomes the deciding factor.