OSX Support & DRM Nonsence

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by HarryT

DRM-blessed?
DRM-resplendent?
DRM-replete?
DRM-fulfilled?

More like:

DRM-poxed
DRM-diseased
DRM-violated
DRM-raped
DRM-slaughtered
DRM-genocided

Yes, we all *get* that you are a disciple of the Greater Orthodox Church of the Divine DRM. And we - the vast majority are constantly reminding you that we *DON'T* want to be proslytized.

Derek

[HarryT]

No, I wouldn't say that I'm exactly a "fan" of DRM; it's more the case that it just doesn't bother me one way or the other, because there are very books that I re-read. Most books, I read once and know that I'll never read again, so I don't have sleepless nights worrying about whether or not I'll be able to re-read them in 20 years time.

Given the choice between DRM and non-DRM, obviously I'd go for non-DRM - I'm not quite that dumb .

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, I wouldn't say that I'm exactly a "fan" of DRM; it's more the case that it just doesn't bother me one way or the other, because there are very books that I re-read. Most books, I read once and know that I'll never read again, so I don't have sleepless nights worrying about whether or not I'll be able to re-read them in 20 years time.

Given the choice between DRM and non-DRM, obviously I'd go for non-DRM - I'm not quite that dumb .

Wow! I've got *average* books from 20 years ago that I re-read at least once every couple of years. Don't get me started on the number of my *favorite* titles which have worn out three and four times due to my re-reading them.

So, for me, as with many other bibliophiles - or so I believe -DRM *is* an issue. Besides, the basic approach of DRM is the publisher crowding into my face - after I've made the purchase - and chastizing me for being a thief out only to ruin him. Sorry, come again!?! I don't take that from any other retailer/manufacturer, so why should I tolerate it from music and book publishers?

Derek

[jasonkchapman]

I personally don't care about DRM as long as it's backlit.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by jasonkchapman

I personally don't care about DRM as long as it's backlit.

Ave PDA! We who are about to embrace the future as represented by eInk, salute your loyalty to backlighting!!!



Derek

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It clearly makes the software which decrypts the book "weightier", but I don't believe it adds any overhead to the book itself. Most encryption methods simply substitute one character for another; they don't, generally speaking, change the number of characters in the text.

9/30/2006 19:05 527,861 ma.lit
527,861 bytes in 1 file and 0 dirs 528,384 bytes allocated
10/04/2007 0:05 518,083 ma2.lit
518,083 bytes in 1 file and 0 dirs 520,192 bytes allocated

With and without DRM for the same book. Not only is the DRM laden file larger but it takes more physical hard drive space. So I do think laden is a good word to use. While it may not make the text of the book any different, DRM does effect the container the book is in.

One definition of laden which fits perfectly...to put (something) on or in, as a burden. And I do think most of us feel DRM is a burden.

[JSWolf]

I will give a perfect example of why not to have DRM.

Derek is supposed to do a review of the Cybook Gen3. In order to do that review, he needs to be able to purchase MobiPocket format ebooks with DRM to show how it works on the Gen3. But he cannot. Why you ask? Well, he doesn't have the PID. No PID, no DRM books. Sounds to me like DRM is blocking Derek from being able to do what he's supposed to be able to do. If we didn't have DRM, Derek would not need to know the PID of his Gen3.

[HarryT]

That's a ludicrous argument, Jon . One can buy MobiPocket format books - as you well know - with or without DRM - and there's no reason in the world to suppose that the CyBook will display a book without DRM in any different manner to the way it displays them with DRM. Derek can go to FictionWise and buy any of I don't know how many thousand books in MobiPocket format if he wants to see how it does with MobiPocket files.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's a ludicrous argument, Jon . One can buy MobiPocket format books - as you well know - with or without DRM - and there's no reason in the world to suppose that the CyBook will display a book without DRM in any different manner to the way it displays them with DRM. Derek can go to FictionWise and buy any of I don't know how many thousand books in MobiPocket format if he wants to see how it does with MobiPocket files.

That's a ridiculous argument Harry. First, *most* of the current-release Fictionwise and Mobipocket ebooks *ARE* in Secure Mobipocket format. So only being able to read the non-secure versions would exclude the Cybook from a large market who *want* to be able read the latest ebooks, not just the older ones or the ones from the lower mid-list and back-list. Yes, I have plenty of ebooks I've run through BD using my Baen titles and I've purchased a couple of the titles offered by Fictionwise in Multiformat-choosing Mobi-and they read just fine. But the hot authors I *want* to read are all Secure Mobipocket, Secure MS Reader or secure PDF. Oops. Guess that makes me a second-class citizen.

Derek

[wallcraft]

The most likely reason for the lack of a PID is that the 0.91 firmware does not in fact support MobiPocket DRM.

If the Cybook is using MobiPocket's Java Reader, then we know it is capable of supporting DRM. It might be doing so, because I have not seen any examples of changing the line spacing or the margins - two shortcomings of the Java Reader. If the reader is instead a Bookeen developed application, then DRM support is in question.

Bookeen will obviously have to have DRM support before the Cybook is released, but I guess I am surprised that DRM is missing from the beta software.

Something else that is obviously missing is the capability to reflash the software. This would be a significant disadvantage if also true of the final device.

[HarryT]

Sorry Derek, I think you've misunderstood me.

Jon was saying that the current inability to load DRM protected MobiPocket books is preventing you from reviewing the device. However, if I understand it correctly, the main purpose of your review is for NAEB, isn't it, and the NAEB web site makes it clear that DRM is not a part of the device specification.

Eg, point 4 of the NAEB "Mission Statement" says:

No DRM and no hidden "gotchas" what you see is what you get.

while the "Specification" page says:

On release of our version the ebook reader software will support ebooks in the following formats: RTF, HTML, PDF and PRC (Mobipocket) No DRM will be built into the software

I am a little puzzled, given this, to hear you say that the "hot authors you want to read" are all in DRM protected formats. If this is the case, why did NAEB specify a device without DRM?

BTW, forgive me if you're already aware of this, but Baen offer MobiPocket as a direct download option. No need to convert anything with BD.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I am a little puzzled, given this, to hear you say that the "hot authors you want to read" are all in DRM protected formats. If this is the case, why did NAEB specify a device without DRM?

BTW, forgive me if you're already aware of this, but Baen offer MobiPocket as a direct download option. No need to convert anything with BD.

Harry,

Clearly you don't understand. *I* favor a bunch of authors - not just those in Baen's stables. Many of those other authors *ARE* offered in Secure Mobipocket format - but not in Sony's BBeB or Hanlin's WOL. NAEB wants the ebook reader to handle non-DRM'd ebooks in some common format other than PDF, TXT or HTML. Mobi's is nice. Baen even offers the webscription ebooks in Mobi - as you pointed out. But that's not good enough - for *ME*. I am, after all, a consumer of ebooks.

As for running my Baen ebooks through BD, well, I'm not encouraging people to run 'less-than-legal' PDF or HTML downloads through BD, but there are those who will. As will there be those who have other, legal, PDF, TXT or HTML ebooks on which they'd like to be able to use Mobi dictionary and text search functions and the like. So I'm killing two birds with one stone, so to speak. Checking up on the formatting of Mobi ebooks on the Cybook and discovering the ease of converting a, shall we say, less-than-perfectly-formatted TXT file into a Mobi ebook.

Oh wow! You know, I'll bet that's exactly what customers who buy a Cybook *might* want to do! (Not all of us can be geeks, nerds and EXTREMELY EARLY ADOPTERS.)

Really, I don't know why this is a hard set of concepts for you.

Derek

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

The most likely reason for the lack of a PID is that the 0.91 firmware does not in fact support MobiPocket DRM.

If the Cybook is using MobiPocket's Java Reader, then we know it is capable of supporting DRM. It might be doing so, because I have not seen any examples of changing the line spacing or the margins - two shortcomings of the Java Reader. If the reader is instead a Bookeen developed application, then DRM support is in question.

Bookeen will obviously have to have DRM support before the Cybook is released, but I guess I am surprised that DRM is missing from the beta software.

Something else that is obviously missing is the capability to reflash the software. This would be a significant disadvantage if also true of the final device.

Yes, ability to display the PID is missing. No, I don't know if there's reflash capability missing or not. I *presume* that, as the SD card slot is not enabled, any update at this time will have to be done through the USB cable - but I don't know at this point.

Derek

[guguy]

delphidb96, you are harsh with harry, calm down, this forum isn't a hostile
place!

[andym]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's a ludicrous argument, Jon . One can buy MobiPocket format books - as you well know - with or without DRM - and there's no reason in the world to suppose that the CyBook will display a book without DRM in any different manner to the way it displays them with DRM. Derek can go to FictionWise and buy any of I don't know how many thousand books in MobiPocket format if he wants to see how it does with MobiPocket files.

I absolutely agree with you. And there are plenty of public domain eBooks in prc format on here, and the navigation is exactly the same. The only difference is that the DRM product is encrypted and needs a key to unencrypt it. OK so it's too early to do a full review of the finished product, and I wouldn't buy a CyBook until this issue is resolved, but it must surely be possible to have some sensible comment on the CyBook instead of this one-sided relentlessly negative nitpicking.

I have to say that 'DRM nonsense' is a pretty good title for this thread. I'm sure I can't be the only person who is getting increasingly alienated from this forum by the endless ranting of the anti-DRM fanatics.

And there is surely an irony here that people seem to be quick to bash Bookeen a company that is basically a two men and a dog operation (as we'd say in Britain - it's not a derogatory term) in the name of consumer choice, and who are the main beneficiaries of all of the attacks on Bookeen? Why Sony which is the company which on its present record, and all of its past record, offers consumers the least consumer choice of any of the eBook options on the market or likely to be coming to the market in the near future. Time to get a sense of perspective?