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Old 10-17-2011, 11:43 AM   #16
stonetools
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But I thought Amazon was our FRIEND....

Luckily for us,theyre are other players out there, and they aren't rolling over and playing dead. Kobo is making a player as a global ebook retailer, And Apple and Google are also there. Mike Shatzkin sees it this way:


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With the deals announced at Frankfurt by Kobo with the English retailer WHSmith and the French retailer Fnac along with the quickening pace of store openings by Apple and Amazon, the future shape of the ebook retailing landscape has been more clearly defined. It looks to me like we’ll have three principal global players that will be active in every market — they being Amazon, Apple, and Kobo — plus perhaps a local contender in each market as well. Barnes & Noble has played the latter role extremely successfully so far in the United States; Waterstone’s will attempt the same in the UK starting next Spring; there is local competition in Germany; and certainly there will be in many other countries as the ebook revolution laps at their shores. Google, being Google, will not go away, but they will remain a relatively marginal player unless and until they put considerably more energy into their solution and into promoting what they have.
LINK

As long as there are other big players out there, Amazon might have the upper hand, but they won't be a monopoly.
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Old 10-17-2011, 12:14 PM   #17
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Excellent. This is the direction we need to be heading and Amazon is the only one big enough and in the right place to do it.
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Old 10-17-2011, 12:17 PM   #18
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I love The Who!

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Old 10-17-2011, 12:26 PM   #19
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No other ebookstore has the fiscal resources of Amazon. If Amazon had to compete just bookstore to bookstore, a company like Barnes & Noble might have a competitive chance.
Not so long ago, it was B&N that was the 800 pound gorilla of the book biz, running the traditional small bookstores out of business and terrifying everyone with a proposed merger with Ingram. They had years of dominance and solid financial advantages with which to compete against Amazon, and they basically flubbed it.

The idea that B&N (and/or Sony, of all companies) is supposed to save us from the perils of a monopoly is quite amusing, given how they spent years trying to dominate the industry, including cranking out their own line of public domain books.

In turn, some upstart could come up with a brilliant idea and blow Amazon out of the water in a few years, at which time you would all complain how Kali Yuga's Ebook Hootch are a bunch of fiends who want to dominate the world of "Direct Brain Book Assimilation."


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Originally Posted by rhadin
The publishers do have a counter if they only had the gumption to do it: All they have to do is refuse to allow any ebookseller to sell any of the publisher's ebooks in any format other than ePub with specific Adobe DRM.
If Random House can't afford to keep their wares out of the Apple bookstore, there's no way the publishers can afford to execute enough leverage to force Amazon to give up Whispernet and its DRM system.

I'm also slightly amused that people aren't celebrating the alleged demise of the publisher; it is a Monday, after all. It seems pretty clear to me that retail in the modern age tends to concentrate into a small number of big players, and a large number of bit players.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:20 PM   #20
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Amazon will almost certainly want all the writers they sign up to be Kindle exclusives, so the other ebook sellers won't be able to compete with those titles. If they are giving 40% royalties compared with the 15% that normal publishers give (which is what I read) they will attract writers with that.
The question is, will they attract customers? And that's a far more complicatedc question, based on prices, yes, but also on quality. If they don't understand what a publisher's job really is, their books will suck, and nobody will buy a second one. If they have good editors and produce good books, they'll thrive.

Given that Amazon's entire business model is based on having as little human interaction as possible with both customers and vendors, I'm skeptical as to how successful they'll be at publishing.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:24 PM   #21
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Except Amazon would have all the books under contract so what would they be selling?
The odds of Amazon being able to get exclusive rights to every single book worth publishing are zero. For every book published, there are hundreds, or thousands, that are rejected. Mostly for good reason, but it isn't hard to find stuff just as good as (or better than) stuff that makes it in to print.

At this point in time, it is entirely possible to start an ebook publishing business with literally nothing invested except time. For every little independent web site selling books that Amazon runs out of business, there will be a hundred more they never even hear about.

The bottom line is, once you have a monopoly, if you exploit it the way you intended to when you created it, you destroy the monopoly.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:57 PM   #22
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I love The Who!

I always thought they were better than the Beatles or the Stones. I sure wish I could relive the 1960s-early 1970s again. Best music decades ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:02 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
If Random House can't afford to keep their wares out of the Apple bookstore, there's no way the publishers can afford to execute enough leverage to force Amazon to give up Whispernet and its DRM system.
Without Random House, Simon & Schuster, and the rest of the Agency 6, Amazon would have a major problem in the book business, especially if other ebooksellers had the books. All the publishers lack is the backbone to do it; if they did it, they'd beat Amazon, which would have a difficult time replacing those books. Rembember the battle with Macmillan. Amazon caved.
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:05 PM   #24
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Quote:
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Without Random House, Simon & Schuster, and the rest of the Agency 6, Amazon would have a major problem in the book business, especially if other ebooksellers had the books. All the publishers lack is the backbone to do it; if they did it, they'd beat Amazon, which would have a difficult time replacing those books. Rembember the battle with Macmillan. Amazon caved.
If they all did it together, they would face yet more legal issues.
They cannot conspire to collectively refuse to trade with a particular company, especially one which is becoming a competitor.
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:06 PM   #25
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I have to agree with Kali. At one time many years ago, I went to local bookstores to buy my books (at that time, that was the only way to get books, other than the used bookstore). I was having to deal with their limited selections, list prices with no discounts (unless you found a book on their "great deal" table set out in the aisle. Most of the time, I had to order a book and wait 2 weeks to 2 months for the book to arrive, and still pay full list price (and sometimes the shipping). At that time, Amazon was panned by every wall st. expert, predicting failure within the next few weeks or months.

Then Amazon implemented a novel idea, called "customer service". Check out the publishers on this one, and see if they even know what that means, believe me, they don't. I've dealt with Amazon and have always had some type of response for any problem I had within hours or days, I have not received any response at all from any publisher I have contacted in the last 3 years. Not a single one. Who do you think I want to buy from now...

Amazon earned their stripes, IMHO. I applaud them for taking on "the establishment" and offering new ways to do business, often in ways that was a risk to them. The old school publishers either can't see this or deny it, and have nothing but alienate of lot of their own customers. Some of the people in this thread have financial ties to the publishers, and have tried to belittle amazon every chance they have, I suspect they are more worried about their wallet than the good of the general reading population.

Ever worried about drm and piracy? Did you notice how amazon implenmented a way to social share ebooks, and the publishers fell all over themselves to try to stop it? They want to stop casual piracy, sharing among family or friends, but a amazon implemented a way to do exactly that, and they want to stop it.

I'm not an expert like Tools or Rich, I'm just a customer. And there's a big disconnect here that people like them don't seem to want to hear.
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:19 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by taustin View Post
At this point in time, it is entirely possible to start an ebook publishing business with literally nothing invested except time.
Because authors would give up the chance to get a higher percentage from an exclusive deal with Amazon in order to be published by a starter e-printing company?

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For every little independent web site selling books that Amazon runs out of business, there will be a hundred more they never even hear about.
If they never hear about them, they aren't making enough profit.
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:23 PM   #27
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But with the ability to use the revenue generated by, for example, selling TVs in pursuit of book deals, Amazon can afford slimmer margins and to invest significantly more capital in trying to monopolize the book indistry.
Funny, BEST BUY thinks it is all that ebook money that lets Amazon discount HDTVs 40% and offer free shipping and superior customer service.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/03...amzn-showroom/

http://hdguru.com/searching-for-an-h...h-amazon/4920/

When I see a competitor whine about Amazon's pricing, I translate the gripe to: "Our bloated overhead means we'd lose money if we tried to match them."

Of note, BEST BUY is now quietly offering Amazon pricing for online sales and looking to "right-size" their storefronts and product mix.
http://hdguru.com/check-it-out-a-bet...578/#more-5578

Maybe they decided it's more productive to compete than to whine. Many small regional TV stores do in fact price match Amazon and live to tell of it because it is better to make a low margin sale (with high margin add-ons like cables and tv stands) than to serve as Amazon's showroom.

Amazon is a tough competitor but they have not repealed the laws of economics; what they have done, others can aspire to. They just have to work as hard and as smart as Amazon. Surely that is not impossible.
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:25 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by taustin View Post
The question is, will they attract customers? And that's a far more complicatedc question, based on prices, yes, but also on quality. If they don't understand what a publisher's job really is, their books will suck, and nobody will buy a second one. If they have good editors and produce good books, they'll thrive.

Given that Amazon's entire business model is based on having as little human interaction as possible with both customers and vendors, I'm skeptical as to how successful they'll be at publishing.
I seriously doubt Amazon is getting into the nuts and bolts of publishing a book--they'll go through existing book packagers for production.
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:00 PM   #29
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Back on topic:

Signing up established writers is a natural move for Amazon.
There's money to be made so, of course they jumped in. The agency model made it easy and inevitable. All they have to tell authors is : "We're getting our 30% no matter what. What you need to decide is whether your publisher is doing enough for you to justify their cut."
Publishers that earn their keep and treat their authors right have little to fear.
A certain poster-child for self-publishing success recently signed a traditional publishing deal because being able to ofload all non-writing efforts to the publisher made sense for her. She won't be the last.

But not all writers that tally up the numbers are going to end up with the same answer.

Once the BPHs set a fixed 30% margin on all books, the next logical question had to be: why should a retailer get a bigger cut than the content producer? And that brought up the gatekeeper question: why do publishers get to decide who gets what? Do authors really need a traditional publisher?

For a lot of writers, the answer will still be yes. For many it will be no.

Getting a manuscript turned into a succesful book takes a fair amount of talent and effort but most of it is one-and-done work that can be contracted for a fixed fee. Some authors prefer to have as much control as possible so that, succeed or fail, it is *their* vision out there. Early reports so far suggest Amazon-the-publisher is a lot like Amazon-the-storefront; they suggest, they guide, but the final decision rests with the customer/author. This will suit many but may not necessarilly serve them best. But then again, it will be *their* name on the cover. There will be successes but there will also be failures.

Where Amazon has an economic edge on traditional publishers, and the aspect that will be hardest for traditional publishers to counter, is that for Amazon-the-publisher ebooks are the primary edition. They've made it clear they will only be distributing limited quantities of (essentially pre-sold) print and audio editions. (Of course, there will be no such constraints on the Audible editions.) In other words, Amazon's imprints are starting fresh, with no legacy burdens in workflow or culture and with a primary focus on content suitable for digital distribution. Odds are old school publishers will have trouble unburdening themselves of the print mindset and they recognize it as several are setting up digital-first imprints like HARLEQUIN's CARINA which, surprise! is taking a very similar tack to Amazon.

So fear not, Amazon will have ample competition in days to come.
The fun part is that those competitors will look and act much like Amazon.

As Niven&Pournelle so succintly put it: "Think of it as evolution in action."

Last edited by fjtorres; 10-17-2011 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:31 PM   #30
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If they all did it together, they would face yet more legal issues.
They cannot conspire to collectively refuse to trade with a particular company, especially one which is becoming a competitor.
They wouldn't be collectively refusing to trade. They would be saying anyone can sell our books but only in ePub with Adobe DRM. It would be no different than the DVD business. Amazon cannot sell DVDs in a format other than as provided.
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