Billboards

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by BookCat

As for the idea of donating the profits to charity, if you advertise this do ensure it's a children's charity or other good cause. Avoid specifically Christian charities as this may alienate a lot of people.

I didn't mean he had to announce that he was donating the profits, just if he didn't want the extra money to donate it personally. Not ask others to donate by buying his book.

I personally won't patronize a place when they say if you buy this and we will donate x% to a certain charity. Hmmm no thanks, how about I donate all the money I would have spent on your this to a charity. Especially since there is always a disclaimer that reads up to a certain dollar amount.

[BookCat]

Cin: I know that's not what you meant, but in post 29 gmw does suggest that Steve could advertise the fact that he's giving the profits to charity.

That's what I was referring to.

PS I haven't quite mastered how to quote bits of comments.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by BookCat

As for the idea of donating the profits to charity, if you advertise this do ensure it's a children's charity or other good cause. Avoid specifically Christian charities as this may alienate a lot of people.

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

[...] I personally won't patronize a place when they say if you buy this and we will donate x% to a certain charity. Hmmm no thanks, how about I donate all the money I would have spent on your this to a charity. Especially since there is always a disclaimer that reads up to a certain dollar amount.

The old acronym YMMV* applies here.

Many of Steven's books are obviously targeted at a Christian audience (or we might even put an optimistic slant on that, and say "potentially Christian audience"). It's obvious from his site that Steven is not going to apologise for, or otherwise hide or obscure that. Yes, this choice will definitely impact on his audience. He will lose some, but he may gain others.

The same argument goes for whether or not to announce the donation of profits to charity. This may turn some people away, it may attract others.

Exactly how these aspects may pan out is open to argument (well, discussion, since we are on Writers' Corner, not P&R ). But it's not a straightforward "x is bad", "y is good" conclusion.


* You mileage may vary

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by gmw

The old acronym YMMV* applies here.

Many of Steven's books are obviously targeted at a Christian audience (or we might even put an optimistic slant on that, and say "potentially Christian audience"). It's obvious from his site that Steven is not going to apologise for, or otherwise hide or obscure that. Yes, this choice will definitely impact on his audience. He will lose some, but he may gain others.

The same argument goes for whether or not to announce the donation of profits to charity. This may turn some people away, it may attract others.

Exactly how these aspects may pan out is open to argument (well, discussion, since we are on Writers' Corner, not P&R ). But it's not a straightforward "x is bad", "y is good" conclusion.


* You mileage may vary

I think what BookCat was saying is some Christians are very picky about what "Christian" charities they will give too.
Messaging you to avoid R.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

I think what BookCat was saying is some Christians are very picky about what "Christian" charities they will give too.
Messaging you to avoid R.

Being picky about charities is not confined to Christians - which may be a downside to announcing such donations.

[Steven Lake]

Originally Posted by gmw

You have enough independent series that you could consider offering a second book for free, for example the first in the Land of the Lions, or perhaps one of your short story collections. Doing this may also alleviate any concerns you have over charging $2.99 rather than $1.99 for the remaining books (though I don't think you should be concerned, it's a fair price).

I mention this mainly because the biggest problem with offering your first published book for free is that quite often the first book is a less than ideal advertisement. We (hope to) get better as we get more experience.

I've actually decided to do the first book free for Earthfleet, Land of the Lions and Offworld Chronicles. The rest will all have pay doors to access. As for the giving to charity part, I tried that and actually got so much negative kickback that I just changed it to "at cost" and people seemed to like that better. Well, at least for the print books. The ebooks it was either "you keep all the money, or just don't charge at all", so for a while I didn't charge. Now I'm gonna try charging and see what happens.

And sorry about my slow replies. I work 10hrs a day 4 days a week at a high stress job, so I don't usually have the energy to do much here by the time I have the freetime to do it. Thankfully I have 3 day weekends every week to recover. ^_^;;

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

I've actually decided to do the first book free for Earthfleet, Land of the Lions and Offworld Chronicles. The rest will all have pay doors to access.

That sounds like a good approach to me ... it's also a bit less of a dramatic change from everything free.

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

As for the giving to charity part, I tried that and actually got so much negative kickback that I just changed it to "at cost" and people seemed to like that better. Well, at least for the print books. The ebooks it was either "you keep all the money, or just don't charge at all", so for a while I didn't charge. Now I'm gonna try charging and see what happens.

That's really interesting. You obviously have a vocal fan base. The worst I would have expected to see was a silent drop off. Of course, whether you "keep all the money" or not is totally up to you, you can do what you want and just not tell anyone (which is what Cinisajoy meant in the first place).

[Steven Lake]

Yeah, I figured as much. I actually don't like going around talking much about anything I do. It's probably why I have such a hard time with self promotion. I'm more concerned with how others are doing than about me and why I'm special (or not special) or why people should read my books. I actually feel kinda awkward talking about myself. So telling people what I'm gonna do with the money seems counter to my nature. It's also part of what's left me in the lurch I'm in, which is what started this whole billboard thread. Oddly enough, if there were a way that hundreds of thousands could hear about and know of my books and be interested in reading them, and do it without me having to be famous and well known as well, I'd be content with that. My goal is to get my books into people's hands, entertain them, and make them happy. Because to me, bringing joy to others is more important than bringing attention to myself, which ends up being a two edged sword as you can't have the fore without the latter unfortunately it seems.

[gmw]

I completely understand not wanting to be famous, and it definitely has its downside. If you haven't already, you should read Hugh Howey's Advice to Aspiring Authors. In particular:

This is going to sound strange, but you are MUCH better off with your 10th work exploding than your 1st work. You’ll never have quiet time to crank out quality material ever again. And when your backlist matches the growth of your first breakout, you’ll do very well for yourself. Be patient. It’s been said by many others, but I’ll repeat it here: self-publishing is a marathon, not a sprint.

I sort of get what you say about bringing joy to others, but my motives are more selfish than that:

I get a buzz from writing (when it's going well). If I could actually make a living at it then I'd have more time to write and so have more time getting that buzz. So the money aspect, for me, is about the writing, rather than the writing being about the money ... if that makes any sense. The problem being that, if Hugh is right, getting too successful could make this backfire.

Which is not to say that I don't care whether people enjoy my work. I also get a buzz when I learn that other people have enjoyed what I wrote - especially when they seem to have seen the same thing I did (a problem I chatted about on another thread). So the more people that read my stories the more chance some of them will leave reviews that might lead to this buzz. There is, I guess, some vanity in that: in believing what I've created is good enough (and it's quite a leap when I think about the authors that I admire ... so I try not to think about them and me at the same time ).

Perhaps I sound like a drug addict looking for their next high ... maybe I am.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

I've actually decided to do the first book free for Earthfleet, Land of the Lions and Offworld Chronicles. The rest will all have pay doors to access. As for the giving to charity part, I tried that and actually got so much negative kickback that I just changed it to "at cost" and people seemed to like that better. Well, at least for the print books. The ebooks it was either "you keep all the money, or just don't charge at all", so for a while I didn't charge. Now I'm gonna try charging and see what happens.

And sorry about my slow replies. I work 10hrs a day 4 days a week at a high stress job, so I don't usually have the energy to do much here by the time I have the freetime to do it. Thankfully I have 3 day weekends every week to recover. ^_^;;

No worries about the slow replies, this isn't work.
As to the famous part, no thanks. At least your hundreds of thousands would be scattered. In our previous town, we knew so many people that it would take us an hour to grocery shop if not longer.

[Steven Lake]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

No worries about the slow replies, this isn't work.
As to the famous part, no thanks. At least your hundreds of thousands would be scattered. In our previous town, we knew so many people that it would take us an hour to grocery shop if not longer.

OMG, you totally just described my one and only brush with real fame! The worst part was the people that fanboyed on me. Wow. I never realized how creepy it is when someone does it to you. It certainly made me stop doing it to others, that's for sure. Cured me of that right on the spot! I'm glad that little blip didn't last long and I could then go back to just enjoying writing like I always do. ^_^

[HarryT]

I'd really suggest losing the religious stuff from the website. Had I not known you from your postings on MR it would have made me determined never to look at one of your books. Your religious beliefs are obviously your own business, but don't mix them with business. I'm certainly not alone in finding such things extremely distasteful.

[gmw]

Harry, I don't think it's that simple. Yes, the "About Me" page is fairly scary to any not expecting it, and could be simplified - made friendlier - if marketing of the books is the main goal (it may not be). However many of the books have an apparent religious tinge, even in the blurb (not just the explicitly religious works) - see "The Race" for example. This is what I meant earlier when I said: It's obvious from his site that Steven is not going to apologise for, or otherwise hide or obscure that.

Given that Steven is in America, this aspect of his site is not necessarily a bad thing from a marketing perspective. You win some, you lose some.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by gmw

Harry, I don't think it's that simple. Yes, the "About Me" page is fairly scary to any not expecting it, and could be simplified - made friendlier - if marketing of the books is the main goal (it may not be). However many of the books have an apparent religious tinge, even in the blurb (not just the explicitly religious works) - see "The Race" for example. This is what I meant earlier when I said: It's obvious from his site that Steven is not going to apologise for, or otherwise hide or obscure that.

I'm not suggesting that anyone apologises for anything, just that proselytising on a business web site is not a good idea, because a lot of your potential customers will find it extremely distasteful (as I do personally). You can sell Christian books without doing that: those who buy such books in the first place don't need to be preached at.

Anyone is of course entitled to hold any beliefs they wish, but using a business website to try to force those beliefs down the throats of your potential customers is not a winning business strategy, to my mind!

[Dr. Drib]

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

Yeah, I figured as much. I actually don't like going around talking much about anything I do. It's probably why I have such a hard time with self promotion. I'm more concerned with how others are doing than about me and why I'm special (or not special) or why people should read my books. I actually feel kinda awkward talking about myself. So telling people what I'm gonna do with the money seems counter to my nature. It's also part of what's left me in the lurch I'm in, which is what started this whole billboard thread. Oddly enough, if there were a way that hundreds of thousands could hear about and know of my books and be interested in reading them, and do it without me having to be famous and well known as well, I'd be content with that. My goal is to get my books into people's hands, entertain them, and make them happy. Because to me, bringing joy to others is more important than bringing attention to myself, which ends up being a two edged sword as you can't have the fore without the latter unfortunately it seems.

I want to give some joy to everyone. Right now! Take it, I say! Take my joy!

Buy my joy! Or else!

"Take My Joy: My Story"

Available in bookstore kiosks, wherever fine ebooks are sold.