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Old 12-13-2017, 12:07 AM   #46
DMcCunney
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Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
However, Pascal WAS a great deal better than Basic, at least the Borland version. It was available for different platforms, and it had the BGI, or Borland Graphics Interface, which made graphics essentially cross-platform. It also had a framework called Turbo Vision, which is basically the MS-DOS-predecessor of the Visual Component Library (VCL) from Delphi. The designer of Turbo Vision and later the VCL tried to get the VCL included in Windows for years, but Microsoft wouldn't hear of it.
Oh, agreed. But some degree of standardization crept in, because it was Pascal intended to run on an Intel x86 architecture under a Microsoft OS.

You could write in Pascal on DEC systems using DEC's version of Pascal, but have fun trying to get your Borland code to build and run on VAX...

(DEC had VAX BASIC, too, but the same comments about getting PC code to run under it apply even more strongly.)

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Then C# came out, and when I first used it in 2006, my reaction was:

"Man... this is like Delphi/VCL, but with C syntax!"

Sure enough, both the VCL and .NET were designed by the same man: Anders Hejlsberg. The VCL used either C++ (Borland C++ Builder) or Object Pascal (Delphi), and they later got combined within the same IDE.

Therefore...

(Delphi/C++ on top of VCL) == (VB/C#/etc on top of .NET)
And back when we had Kylix, which was Object Pascal on Linux. That failed because developers on Linux wouldn't pay for it. With C/C++ the preferred languages and GCC available free, why buy Kylix? Too few did, and Embarcadero dropped it.

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I know, and if you need pure speed, C and C++ (which, on compiling, strips ALL of the syntactic sugar such as objects en such) are still unmatched. C and C++ compilers are so good nowadays that it's virtually impossible to write more efficient assembler code by hand.
Yep. Optimization is something the compiler does for you. It can simply do it better than you can. People trying to hand-craft their own Assembler for speed-critical stuff are usually crafting faster ways to shoot themselves in the foot.

(The bigger and far worse sin is premature optimization, but that's another topic entirely.)

A lot of the problems I've seen reported might not have occurred, however, if developers had thought of C++ as a new language instead of as a superset of C.

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To some extent, steps like these are still common in (for example) the GNU toolchain: compiling from one language to an intermediary, to object code, with assembler compiled by a different program, and then they're all linked together.
Yes. And going back a bit, DEC had their Common Object File Format, intended to let you write modules in whichever language - BASIC, C, Pascal, Assembler - they offered, depending on what that module was best written in, and then link them together to form an executable without worrying about what languages the parts were written in.

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Agreed. If there's one thing I don't miss from C and C++, it's memory management... but I DO miss strong typing when working in something like Javascript of PHP.
If you are used to it, of course you will. I don't expect PHP to get strong typing any time soon, however.

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Strong typing, and enforcing variable declarations should be _mandatory_ in any language, because now, the biggest causes of bugs have moved from mishandling memory management, to typo's in variable and function names.
And it would require $DEITY to pass a miracle to order for that to happen.

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edit:
Anders Hejlsberg

Aaaaaaand.... there you have it, why TypeScript (the 'strongly typed Javascript') uses Pascal-style type syntax: this guy is the lead designer of that language. It seems that, apart from C/C++ (Ritchie, Kernighan, Thompson/Stroustrup), everything I've ever used with regard to programming was either designed, or heavily influenced by Hejlsberg.

I think he needs to be in the same hall of fame as Ritchie, Kernighan, Thompson and Stroustrup. They defined much of the computing environments and languages in the 1960's, 1970's and early 1980's, while Anders Hejlsberg defined most of the stuff from 1985 onwards. First it was Turbo Pascal which made a cheap and powerful compiler and IDE available to everyone (with the Borland Pascal version yet more powerful for professionals), and then Delphi was HUGE from 1995 up to 2004-5, with Delphi 7 and C++ Builder being the best IDE's ever created... IMHO. After 2004-5, .NET basically took over, but it was designed by the same man.
If you are going to add Hejlberg to that pantheon, also add Dave Cutler. Dave is Chief Architect of Windows NT, and before he came to Microsoft he was Chief Architect of DEC's VMS OS on VAX systems. He was adamant that NT be portable, as he understood that NT might not only need to run on Intel x86 architecture. Windows RT never really got anywhere because the rest of the pieces of that puzzle weren't in place, But Win10S on ARM has promise.

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And now that development is moving towards more and more Javascript, taking it out of the browser with NodeJS and it not being fit for purpose anymore (apps are getting too large for a dynamic, untyped language), he is _again_ the lead designer of the next big thing.
JavaScript is an embed-able script language. It began on browsers, but no surprise it had turned up elsewhere. And things like Typescript are syntactic sugar intended to provide strong typing to JavaScript. Hardly the first time something like that has occurred. Remember that C++ which added objects originally compiled to standard C.
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:05 AM   #47
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Most of those so far mentioned owe more than a little to Tony Hoare, Ed Dijkstra, Kristen Nygaard and Ole-Johan Dahl. Nyggard and Dahl created Simula the forerunner of object-oriented languages.

Hoare, Dijkstra, and Dahl wrote a seminal book - Structured Programming - I call it the "Little Black Book", it sits close by my copy of Kernighan & Ritchie's "Little White Book".

The lady who taught me to program (Moira) was one of Hoare's students at Cambridge. My title here is a reference to his billion-dollar mistake, that's the cost he puts on his decision to furnish Algol with a null reference.

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Old 12-13-2017, 04:06 PM   #48
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AFAIK, you should be able to run a C# application on Linux with just Mono, since the .NET runtime Mono implements actually executes the code. The C# code should be portable. You shouldn't need Wine in the mix.
I can confirm this. You do not need Wine, Mono is enough. However... it depends on the quality of the programmer. Especially if you consider file handling, there are of course differences between Linux and Windows. If your programmer is worth his salary, he/she doesn't hardcode stuff like slashes...
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Old 12-13-2017, 04:44 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Toxaris View Post
I can confirm this. You do not need Wine, Mono is enough. However... it depends on the quality of the programmer. Especially if you consider file handling, there are of course differences between Linux and Windows. If your programmer is worth his salary, he/she doesn't hardcode stuff like slashes...
That was my assumption, and thanks for the confirmation.

But things directory separators and option delimiters have been problems as long as I can recall. So are things like EOL characters. *nix uses LF (ASCII 11) to mark EOL. MacOS prior to OS/X used CR (ASCII 13). MSDOS, bless it's pointed little head, used both in a CRLF combo, and Windows inherited the practice from DOS. I've spent the odd hour on scripts to do the conversion when I had to move stuff between OSes.

It's even more annoying when the OS can be queried about what it uses, and code can be written to use whatever the OS specifies, but programmers hard-code and break portability. If I were a manager and a programmer reporting to me did that, he/she would be looking for a new job...
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Old 12-14-2017, 05:06 AM   #50
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Well, you can easily avoid hard-coded slashes, case sensitivity and alike if you use the stored constants and alike. The .NET framework can handle it for you easily enough, if you bother to look into it. Of course it is a little more typing than just a slash...
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:10 PM   #51
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Frustrated with my desktop. My Mac Plus worked for 24 years without a hitch. All game playing since 1994 (i didn't want to give up that fabulous Tetris game until I had to). This thing is not even 6. Due to paying for a crown, I have to delay replacement for several months, so I'm mostly winging it on tablet surfing. Why does stuff fail just before reasonable planned replacement? I don't even play games on the stupid thing.
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:21 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Toxaris View Post
If your programmer is worth his salary, he/she doesn't hardcode stuff like slashes...
Mwahaha.... If I had the power to FOREVER fire everyone I've ever worked with who hardcoded slashes as either "\" or "/" (EVERYWHERE) depending if a site was hosted on Windows or Linux, there would be a lot less people working in IT right now.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:14 PM   #53
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Bah. Some people should stop jackassing around.

My phone has been having issues with Google stuff, such as Youtube being unstable, off and on. The latest issue is that I suddenly can't search for contacts in the dialer/contact app. First I thought the screen was going defective, but other programs with a search bar in the same spot just work.

So, I wiped the entire phone (Nexus 4, old, I know, but it still has enough power to do what I need of it) and installed LineageOS, the successor to CyanogenMod. At first it seemed to work fine: blazing fast, everything worked, installed and configured everything. Nice. Running Android 7.1.2, my 5 year old Nexus is ahead of my GF's three month old €200 budget phone, both in hardware AND software.

And then... I left the phone alone for a night.

It dropped from fully charged to 50% in eight hours.

Battery life on Lineage is atrocious. If you're working with the device, it's about the same as it was, but when in idle, "something" doesn't idle. The battery graph shows a steady downward slope, and projected usage is 16 hours, when doing exactly nothing.

I've wiped the phone again, and re-installed the official factory image. During updates, I've left the phone alone for an hour or two, and when it's not doing anything, the battery indicator is (almost) flat.

Youtube works, but I still can't search in the Phone/dialer/contact app... wonder how and if this will ever be fixed.
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Old 12-15-2017, 02:39 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Toxaris View Post
Well, you can easily avoid hard-coded slashes, case sensitivity and alike if you use the stored constants and alike. The .NET framework can handle it for you easily enough, if you bother to look into it. Of course it is a little more typing than just a slash...
And I'm willing to be that if you use a decent editor, that's boilerplate you can store as a snippet and insert with a keystroke or two.
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