File size Sigil vs Kindle Create

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by exaltedwombat

Nothing to do with opinion, it's in the numbers! Though skimming down your Author List at http://www.booknook.biz/author-list/letter/ many of them DO show two or more publications. And your revised average of 1.5 books per client is up from the original 1.25 :-) Don't do yourself down!

Nice counter-attack - though I really wasn't attacking. I haven't had an enquiry for a porn book yet, but send 'em over!

We don't do porn, but if I get one, I'll be sure to send it your way.

The author list was last updated in 2010. Haven't bothered since, it's too much work. I don't have enough hours in the day to keep it up, to be honest. We're actually pretty lucky with recidivists.

Hitch

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by exaltedwombat

Nice counter-attack - though I really wasn't attacking. I haven't had an enquiry for a porn book yet, but send 'em over!

The preferred term these days is erotic or adult romance. Or as my dear old dad referred to it, porn for ladies.

[Notjohn]

Originally Posted by Hitch

What's your question? Are you saying you're using D2D to make a MOBI, or are you comparing apples and oranges, an ePUB from D2D to a MOBI from the KDP?

You already know that a MOBI has 3 full sets of files inside it. What's the question here? A MOBI will typically contain an ePUB inside it, in addition to the KF8 mobi and the KF7 mobi/prc file, so OF COURSE, the bloody thing is larger. Is that what you're asking about?

Hitch

Of course notl! What are you thinking?

I was merely intrigued by the apparent statement that an epub uploaded to D2D will be smaller than the declared size of the Kindle version, as shown on the third (pricing) tab in the publishing process.

I refer to KDP's portmanteau file as "the so-called mobi," because it's a package of files, of which the old mobi (KF7) is hardly the most important. All I am concerned about is the delivery fee!

The Word 2000 files I uploaded to the DTP in 2007 and 2008 were two or three times larger than the epubs I upload to the KDP today. As viewed in a text editor, each paragraph tag took up more than one line, often three lines. My all-text books of say 80,000 words are generally 500 KB or less, for a delivery fee of about seven cents. By January 2012 I was selling about a thousand books a month (not nearly so many today). An additional ten or fifteen cents a copy was a big deal to me.

Thus my interest in whether books turned out by Kindle Create are bloated or not.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Notjohn

Of course notl! What are you thinking?

I was merely intrigued by the apparent statement that an epub uploaded to D2D will be smaller than the declared size of the Kindle version, as shown on the third (pricing) tab in the publishing process.

I refer to KDP's portmanteau file as "the so-called mobi," because it's a package of files, of which the old mobi (KF7) is hardly the most important. All I am concerned about is the delivery fee!

The Word 2000 files I uploaded to the DTP in 2007 and 2008 were two or three times larger than the epubs I upload to the KDP today. As viewed in a text editor, each paragraph tag took up more than one line, often three lines. My all-text books of say 80,000 words are generally 500 KB or less, for a delivery fee of about seven cents. By January 2012 I was selling about a thousand books a month (not nearly so many today). An additional ten or fifteen cents a copy was a big deal to me.

Thus my interest in whether books turned out by Kindle Create are bloated or not.

I understand WHY you are asking, but comparing ePUB to MOBI is meaningless.

The better comparison would be to make the SAME book in both the normal way--HTML or ePUB-->KG or KP or KDP Upload-->MOBI, versus Word file to KC to KPF file. Then upload both, get the official "delivery fee" and THAT would be relevant to the size and delivery fee discussion. Talking about D2D and MOBI, honestly, maybe I'm too literal, but I don't get the point.

Hitch

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DNSB

The preferred term these days is erotic or adult romance. Or as my dear old dad referred to it, porn for ladies.

BTW, vis-a-vis our discussion about recidivists:

It's my experience that our clientele tends to be three groups, largely.

1. Memoirs--man, lots and lots of memoirs, from people who presumably, are writing them for their family members. sure, they publish them, but they're pretty regular, everyday folks, who haven't done anything remarkable, so I presume that their sales are pretty meager. Obviously, not many folks write more than one memoir.
2. People who've heard that you can make BIG money publishing books; who've never met a writing course that they liked, don't need no stinkin' writing group or critique group, and they're not gonna spend any advertising money or money on covers until their first book makes them rich. Suffice to say, we usually see them once and only once.
3. Determined writers. These are our recidivists (repeat customers). We have many for whom we've done 6+ books, over the past 9-10 years. They're determined to write. Yes, they write for their own enjoyment, but they are also determined to be "working writers." We get quite a bit of biz from those folks, typically one book/year.

Also, in terms of my numbers--while I can tell, pretty accurately, how many books we've made, it's far more difficult for me to tell how many unique clients we actually have had. My accounting/billing system tracks "customers" in terms of who has received a quote, and how many invoices we've sent out, but it's a major undertaking (I have to request the report from the software company) to determine unique invididuals who've received an invoice. (We have another 2K invoices for customers that have had rework done on their books, editing invoices, etc.) So, my figures of number of customers are guesstimates, based on how we organize our clent folders (last name, first name, with their individual books in sub-folders). So, hell, I could be off by 500 bodies. But I think the numbers are about right, as of the end of 2018--something over 4K books for 3K-ish clients. {shrug}. Also, that's from the "new" accounting system that we started in 3rd quarter 2011, so all the customers from '09 to that point aren't counted, either. For that matter, neither are their books.

Honestly...the numbers are to reassure prospective buyers that we're not some fly-by-night (even though most of them found us through Amazon). They were probably more important in 2010--the numbers, I mean, but then again, the demographic of the clientele has changed dramatically. The customers now are more skittish, far far less technically-oriented (a huge number of our clients use yahoo, AOL and Hotmail email addresses, for example), and more afraid of the process than the early adopters in 2010, for example. We do significantly more print than we ever did, so our overall production of "books" per year is lower now, as each book that has the print component as well as the eBook components takes longer to do. Fewer books, fewer customers. {shrug}. If it matters.

FWIW.

Also--I find that the vast bulk of "erotica" authors don't use formatters. Their business model doesn't support it, which is numerous books, each of which sells quickly and not abundantly. As I understand it, erotica authors will turn out a dozen "books" per year, uploading them as Word files with branded titles or what-have-you. No joke, we've had exceedingly few requests for quotes on erotica.

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

What's your question? Are you saying you're using D2D to make a MOBI, or are you comparing apples and oranges, an ePUB from D2D to a MOBI from the KDP?

You already know that a MOBI has 3 full sets of files inside it. What's the question here? A MOBI will typically contain an ePUB inside it, in addition to the KF8 mobi and the KF7 mobi/prc file, so OF COURSE, the bloody thing is larger. Is that what you're asking about?

Hitch

I'm disagreeing you your KF8 mobi file type. Mobi is mobiposted. KF8 is not mobi.

That said, I have an ePub edited with Calibre's editor at 630KB. The Calibre conversion to KF8 is 774KB.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by exaltedwombat

Nothing to do with opinion, it's in the numbers! Though skimming down your Author List at http://www.booknook.biz/author-list/letter/ many of them DO show two or more publications. And your revised average of 1.5 books per client is up from the original 1.25 :-) Don't do yourself down!

Nice counter-attack - though I really wasn't attacking. I haven't had an enquiry for a porn book yet, but send 'em over!

But porn sells. Even really really really bad porn sells. That''s why 50 Shades of Grey sold well.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I'm disagreeing you your KF8 mobi file type. Mobi is mobiposted. KF8 is not mobi.

John, don't make me pimp-slap you back into your seat. Amazon calls it MOBI. As the format belongs to them, it's their prerogative. Stop fighting a battle that you've already lost, sweetie.

That said, I have an ePub edited with Calibre's editor at 630KB. The Calibre conversion to KF8 is 774KB.

Which is irrelevant, as that's a KF7 file. Right?

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But porn sells. Even really really really bad porn sells. That''s why 50 Shades of Grey sold well.

Oh, yes, it does. I"m pretty sure everyone on the planet has considered the idea of trying to make lunch money writing porn. But my understanding from the purveyors thereof on the various author fora is that their profitability per title is not really enough to pay for commercial formatting, even el-cheapo Calibre-type formatting. There are, like traditional categories of literature, exceedingly few that make it like 50SOG; most toddle along, a few bucks at a time on their, er, stories.

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

John, don't make me pimp-slap you back into your seat. Amazon calls it MOBI. As the format belongs to them, it's their prerogative. Stop fighting a battle that you've already lost, sweetie.

Mobi is an obsolete file format. KF8 is not.

Which is irrelevant, as that's a KF7 file. Right?

Nope. It is KF8. You know, the one that has a .azw3 extension in Calibre.

Oh, yes, it does. I"m pretty sure everyone on the planet has considered the idea of trying to make lunch money writing porn. But my understanding from the purveyors thereof on the various author fora is that their profitability per title is not really enough to pay for commercial formatting, even el-cheapo Calibre-type formatting. There are, like traditional categories of literature, exceedingly few that make it like 50SOG; most toddle along, a few bucks at a time on their, er, stories.

Hitch

Kind Unlimited is chock full of really bad porn. The thing I really dislike is porn that trying to be Fantasy or science fiction and when you look on Amazon for Fantasy or Science Fiction, you get bombarded with really crappy porn.

I think we (MR regulars) should get together and write a really bad porn book and put it up on Kindle Unlimited.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Mobi is an obsolete file format. KF8 is not.

Which those of us in commercial production STILL have to make. I don't care what you think about this, Jon. I still have to make them. AMAZON calls it MOBI, whether YOU like it or not. Whether YOU or anyone else thinks it's an obsolete file format, and the KF8 files that we build are STILL using .mobi as the file extension. Be as pedantic as you wish, but Amazon rules this roost.

Nope. It is KF8. You know, the one that has a .azw3 extension in Calibre.

Which means NOTHING, as it's not part of the Amazon ecosystem. We're discussing whether or not KF8 MOBIs, built as part of Kindlegen, are bigger or smaller than .kpf files, as built as part of Kindle Create.

Talking about what Calibre does or doesn't do isn't relevant, Jon. Sorry, but it's not. You can't upload an .azw3 file, so...why even bring it up? What it does, how it builds it...it's not germane to this.

Kind Unlimited is chock full of really bad porn. The thing I really dislike is porn that trying to be Fantasy or science fiction and when you look on Amazon for Fantasy or Science Fiction, you get bombarded with really crappy porn.

I think we (MR regulars) should get together and write a really bad porn book and put it up on Kindle Unlimited.

Can't argue about KU and porn, good, bad or otherwise, but you can't blame that on Amazon. Obviously, as pathetic as it is, there's a vast market for it.

Hitch

[KevinH]

Actually, the mobi format is simply a database file of records and record types that a "compiled" ebook is stored in. It was the original Palm Database File format. It could be used to store any information. They choose the first record to be a header record that points to where to find the records and what type they are. Therefore almost any file format could be stored in a .mobi file. It is really the mobi header record that determines almost everything. The original mobi format was used to store a simplified html 3 dialect with links changed to record offsets, index records for toc, etc. Mobi KF8 uses the same database with extended header record to store epub2 level fragments.

So saying something is not "mobi" is not really correct as you could use a variation of mobi to store almost any compiled set of information.

The shared KindleUnpack source code is a good reference to show how both old html3 pieces and newer epub pieces can be stored in the same binary Palm database structure that we know as Mobi.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by KevinH

Actually, the mobi format is simply a database file of records and record types that a "compiled" ebook is stored in. It was the original Palm Database File format. It could be used to store any information. They choose the first record to be a header record that points to where to find the records and what type they are. Therefore almost any file format could be stored in a .mobi file. It is really the mobi header record that determines almost everything. The original mobi format was used to store a simplified html 3 dialect with links changed to record offsets, index records for toc, etc. Mobi KF8 uses the same database with extended header record to store epub2 level fragments.

So saying something is not "mobi" is not really correct as you could use a variation of mobi to store almost any compiled set of information.

The shared KindleUnpack source code is a good reference to show how both old html3 pieces and newer epub pieces can be stored in the same binary Plam database structure that we know as Mobi.

THANK YOU!!!!

Hitch