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Old 02-12-2022, 04:32 AM   #1
hildea
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Books you love that others hate (or: A defence of covers with half naked men)

Several of the posts in Books only lying poseurs could claim to like make me itch to defend my favourites. That would be off-topic for that thread, so I'm making a new one.

To prevent the need for a new thread for books you hate that others love that others hate I'm fine with this thread being used to answer posts here. And even though I chose hyperbole in the heading, I'm fine with discussions about books you like that others dislike as well.
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Old 02-12-2022, 05:10 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Oh and put down any book with a half naked man on the cover that's labeled romance. Those are really awful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ownedbycats View Post
Especially when they don't even bother to show the guy's head. Just naked torso.
I've read some truly excellent romances with covers with half naked men. (I can't offhand remember any with just the torso that ownedbycats mentioned, but I wouldn't discount a book with that type of cover).

The presence of a half naked man on the cover tells us that at least one of the protagonists is a man, but says nothing at all about the quality of the book, and very little about the content. Dismissing a huge number books as awful based on the cover is prejudiced. It would be just a silly to dismiss all books with spaceships on the cover, or all books with guns on the cover.

Note: I see a big difference between saying "I don't like this (sub)genre" and "This (sub)genre is awful". For instance, I don't like books with graphical violence, but I wouldn't describe all such books as awful, just not for me.

Some recommendations of books with half naked men on the cover:

Rose Lerner: Listen to the Moon
I like historical novels about other parts of society than those at the top. The story of how Sukey and John learn to work together and respect each other is well written, with interesting character development.
Quote:
John Toogood prides himself on being the perfect gentleman’s gentleman: skilled, discreet, and professional. But now he finds himself laid off and blacklisted, desperate for a job. Any job.

His instant attraction to his happy-go-lucky maid Sukey Grimes couldn’t come at a worse time. Her manners are provincial, her respect for authority nonexistent, and her outdated cleaning methods…well, the less said about them, the better.

Then John learns that the town vicar needs a butler—but the job is only for a respectable married man…
(This one has been republished with a cover with a woman in a pretty dress, which only shows that the cover doesn't say all that much about the content.)

Courtney Milan: Hold Me
I like mistaken identities stories, which this is, kind of. Well written characters, not a lot of external drama, but character growth which is believable and engaging. And a transgenic shark as a memorable side character
Quote:
Jay na Thalang is a demanding, driven genius. He doesn’t know how to stop or even slow down. The instant he lays eyes on Maria Lopez, he knows that she is a sexy distraction he can’t afford. He’s done his best to keep her at arm’s length, and he’s succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.

Maria has always been cautious. Now that her once-tiny, apocalypse-centered blog is hitting the mainstream, she’s even more careful about preserving her online anonymity. She hasn’t sent so much as a picture to the commenter she’s interacted with for eighteen months—not even after emails, hour-long chats, and a friendship that is slowly turning into more. Maybe one day, they’ll meet and see what happens.

But unbeknownst to them both, Jay is Maria’s commenter. They’ve already met. They already hate each other. And two determined enemies are about to discover that they’ve been secretly falling in love…
K.J.Charles: A Seditious Affair
Silas Mason is one of my favourite characters ever, across all books I've read. And Charles uses the historical setting well, with the Peterloo Massacre and the crackdown on civil liberties in England looming over the love story.
Quote:
Silas Mason has no illusions about himself. He’s not lovable, or even likable. He’s an overbearing idealist, a radical bookseller and pamphleteer who lives for revolution . . . and for Wednesday nights. Every week he meets anonymously with the same man, in whom Silas has discovered the ideal meld of intellectual companionship and absolute obedience to his sexual commands. But unbeknownst to Silas, his closest friend is also his greatest enemy, with the power to see him hanged—or spare his life.

A loyal, well-born gentleman official, Dominic Frey is torn apart by his affair with Silas. By the light of day, he cannot fathom the intoxicating lust that drives him to meet with the radical week after week. In the bedroom, everything else falls away. Their needs match, and they are united by sympathy for each other’s deepest vulnerabilities. But when Silas’s politics earn him a death sentence, desire clashes with duty, and Dominic finds himself doing everything he can to save the man who stole his heart.
This cover is terrible, but that's because the person on the cover has very little in common with either of the two protagonists, and the whole mood of the cover is at odds with the book.
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Last edited by hildea; 02-12-2022 at 05:13 AM.
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Old 02-12-2022, 09:03 AM   #3
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Authors usually have very little input on the covers. At least the ones that are not self-published. I do admit to being irritated with covers that have nothing to do with the story. The artist should have to read the book and draw the cover accordingly.
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Old 02-12-2022, 12:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hildea View Post
The presence of a half naked man on the cover tells us that at least one of the protagonists is a man, but says nothing at all about the quality of the book, and very little about the content. Dismissing a huge number books as awful based on the cover is prejudiced. It would be just a silly to dismiss all books with spaceships on the cover, or all books with guns on the cover.
I happily dismiss all books with covers depicting naked torsos and/or spaceships; I don't want to read "steamy" romance or science fiction. Guns aren't genre-specific, so I don't dismiss books with guns on the cover unless the gun belongs to a cowboy, clothed or unclothed.

Silly? Perhaps. But the visual is a way to quickly cull the herd so I can get to the kind of book I like.
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Old 02-12-2022, 12:33 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by hildea View Post
I've read some truly excellent romances with covers with half naked men. (I can't offhand remember any with just the torso that ownedbycats mentioned, but I wouldn't discount a book with that type of cover).

The presence of a half naked man on the cover tells us that at least one of the protagonists is a man, but says nothing at all about the quality of the book, and very little about the content.
It does tell us, however, to whom the book is being marketed. And while it might not say much in itself about a particular book, all those naked torsos in the aggregate give you a pretty good feel for the books in question. I’d expect some of them to be (much) better than others, but that means those books either are being done a disservice or have made the calculation that more is to be made by appealing to that common denominator than striking out on a basis of quality.

And in regard to KJ Charles, I’ve mentioned more than once how much I enjoyed her take on The Prisoner of Zenda and that I read it on your recommendation. But the cover you’ve posted here is so at odds with the setting of the book that I can’t help inferring only a tangential relationship to the facts of the Peterloo massacre. Again, a calculated appeal to KJ Charles fans/fans of M/M romance and not particularly to fans of accurate historical novels. You agree that the cover’s terrible; you’re willing to suspend judgment but as with Catlady, I’m not. Next!
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Old 02-13-2022, 01:44 AM   #6
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Though I haven't read one of those books, I defend anyone's right to read books with half naked men on the cover.

Though it's not my cup of tea, I have been tempted. I have seriously considered reading Misery's Return.
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Old 02-13-2022, 01:57 AM   #7
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I agree with Hildea. Books you don't like? For sure. Awful books? How do you know if you have only seen the cover? I agree with Catlady, too, that covers help in the majority of the books, to identify its genre (if they belog to someone, with everything it implies).

In any case, I'm old enough to feel that the discussion about half naked men in covers is at the same level that "was Heinlein fascist"?

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Old 02-13-2022, 03:58 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZodWallop View Post
Though I haven't read one of those books, I defend anyone's right to read books with half naked men on the cover.

Though it's not my cup of tea, I have been tempted. I have seriously considered reading Misery's Return.
I much prefer that cover to the photographs used on the other ones. But what is up with that font? I feel dyslexic just looking at it.

With e-books I don't even pay attention to covers. I hardly ever see them with the way I've got my UI set up. If buying a physical book - it doesn't really matter what the book is about if the fonts, margins, quality of the pages, etc don't suit my taste. I never got around to reading Ulysses due to the atrocious colour of the spine (I bought the book online).
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Old 02-13-2022, 07:07 AM   #9
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The way I look at it is there are many books and not so much time. If a book I do not know the author and the cover is one that makes me think it may be something I won't like, I won't try it without a recommendation from someone I can trust enough.

The saying to not judge a book by it's cover is wrong. We do judge by the cover as it's the first thing we see if it's a book by an unknown author.

I don't care for steamy romance type books and the covers with half-naked men and maybe holding some woman cries out steamy romance. If that's not the case, then the cover is doing the book a disservice. But I'm not going to take that chance.

I'm not going to say that someone is not to read any books that I don't or may not like. You have the right to read what you want.
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Old 02-13-2022, 09:11 AM   #10
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Regarding the three books hildea mentioned, if I'd seen the titles alone in a list, I would probably click on a link to check them out. The titles Listen to the Moon, Hold Me, and A Seditious Affair might indicate suspense or historical fiction, genres I like. The covers, however, tell me they're a hard no. So I appreciate that I don't have to investigate further!

As far as indicating awfulness, well, the covers indicate awfulness to me. A well-written romance is still a romance, and I simply do not like the romance genre.
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Old 02-13-2022, 10:24 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kandwo View Post
I much prefer that cover to the photographs used on the other ones. But what is up with that font? I feel dyslexic just looking at it.
Maybe the font for the 'alternate' cover of this book will be easier to read:


The cover I showed was a 'joke' second cover that came with the initial paperback version of Misery. If you're familiar with what he looks like, the half naked man on the cover is Stephen King (well, the head is).
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Old 02-13-2022, 01:50 PM   #12
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Not too many half naked men on the covers, but books I love that others hate are movie novelizations. Especially novelizations of low budget horror or sci-fi movies, where the author isn't hampered by cheesy sets, dodgy special effects or subpar acting. Sometimes the book will contain scenes or background details that just couldn't make it to the film for one reason or another.

Alan Dean Foster made a cottage industry of novelizations back in the '70's and '80's.

But my favorite is when there's a mediocre movie that has a surprisingly excellent novelization. The Car and a movie with the bad title of The Boogens are both watchable. But their novelizations were well written, suspenseful books.

luckily I have a friend that converts novelizations for fun, so my Kobo is well stocked with them.
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Old 02-13-2022, 05:59 PM   #13
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Well, sometimes great books just have cheesy covers. Ilona Andrews has the excellent series published by Avon books now, but these covers, this is hideous lol

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00T3C2ZMC...ng=UTF8&btkr=1
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Old 02-13-2022, 06:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
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K.J.Charles: A Seditious Affair
Silas Mason is one of my favourite characters ever, across all books I've read. And Charles uses the historical setting well, with the Peterloo Massacre and the crackdown on civil liberties in England looming over the love story.

This cover is terrible, but that's because the person on the cover has very little in common with either of the two protagonists, and the whole mood of the cover is at odds with the book.
I love KJ Charles, mainly some of the older stuff, especially Think of England and the Magpie series. I liked this one too and Silas was awesome - as was Cyprian!
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Old 02-14-2022, 12:31 AM   #15
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Not a lot of traffic but this forum on reddit has some funny excerpts:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WomenWritingMen/
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