Page Numbers, Percentage, or nothing at all

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

I like to have page numbers without having the book title showing. (The way it was before the last update.)

I don't care if the numbers are at the top or bottom of the page.

I think Kobo should have kept the previous options available and any changes should have been additions to, not replacements for, the previously available formats.

And when you turn on the page numbering, you lose text at the bottom of the page (probably can be fixed with patches, not sure).

I like the way the Tolinos work here (if only you could get rid of the bookmark icon at the top of the page it would be perfect). No header and a very simple footer. Just the page you're on and the total number of pages... My current book (for example) reads "198 / 254" and that's it.

[deleted2]

Originally Posted by John F

I prefer to have no header and no footer (this includes no progress bar). I would prefer to have one tap bring up page numbers. I would be fine with a setting for what gets displayed.

Agree.

(edit) But I like the progess bar.

Originally Posted by John F

I liked the way they implemented it several firmwares ago: tap for the menu, and it would bring up the last menu option/popup selected.

I agree also.

[Uncle Robin]

literally coded in to the epub "somehow" so that it starts a page at the word that would start a page in the physical book and ends it in a similar fashion.

This concept seems sensible to me, as an acknowledgement of how arbitrary "page numbers" are in ebooks. How would progress through the book be calculated?

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by John F

I prefer to have no header and no footer (this includes no progress bar). I would prefer to have one tap bring up page numbers. I would be fine with a setting for what gets displayed.

Curious as to why no progress bar, the way Kobo implemented it it is very unlikely that the bar will prohibit you from maximizing text. At least I've not yet found a mixture of settings which will allow the text to come to the very bottom edge of the screen (it comes close, but there's still space enough for the progress bar).

Unless it's just to have a cleaner display of course.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

This concept seems sensible to me, as an acknowledgement of how arbitrary "page numbers" are in ebooks. How would progress through the book be calculated?

Progress through the ebook? The same as it would in a physical book as much as possible. For the instances where a page doesn't line up with the screen have it display the lower page number.

So if something is on page 435 of a physical book, but your settings on your ereader have it so it's displayed on screen with page 434 the ereader would display 434.

It'll still eventually flip to 435, and you'd not have to page back more than one page to find the quote. Still imprecise compared to physical books, but a large step closer than either ADE or Kobo's current or prior methods.

As I said earlier, it's making a broken system work as much as possible, since creating a truly universal system is going to be impossible without limiting screen size, text size, line spacing, margins, font, kerning, etc. etc.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

It'll still eventually flip to 435, and you'd not have to page back more than one page to find the quote. Still imprecise compared to physical books, but a large step closer than either ADE or Kobo's current or prior methods.

The next, and apparently much more challenging, hurdle for such a system to overcome is the remarkably devout and passionate attachment many have to "page numbers".

[4691mls]

For me, the main use of having some kind of consistent page numbering is being able to quickly judge comparative length of books. If most of the books I read were between, say, 300 - 400 ADE pages and I opened a new book and saw it was only 150, or over 500, then I would know the book was shorter or longer than my usual.

[icallaci]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

For me, the main use of having some kind of consistent page numbering is being able to quickly judge comparative length of books. If most of the books I read were between, say, 300 - 400 ADE pages and I opened a new book and saw it was only 150, or over 500, then I would know the book was shorter or longer than my usual.

I agree with this. I don't really care what algorithm is used, but I want to know approximately how many pages (or screens or whatever) the book has so that I can compare it with other books, as well as to gauge my own daily reading average. Percentage is next to useless for me. I am currently reading a 2500+ "page" book. 1% of 2500 pages is far different than 1% of a 150-"page" book. I am not looking for absolute accuracy to some rigidly defined standard--I just want to compare different books' lengths and also have some idea of how much I read each day. Page numbers (even "faux" page numbers) are the easiest, most intuitive way I've found to do this.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by icallaci

I agree with this. I don't really care what algorithm is used, but I want to know approximately how many pages (or screens or whatever) the book has so that I can compare it with other books, as well as to gauge my own daily reading average. Percentage is next to useless for me. I am currently reading a 2500+ "page" book. 1% of 2500 pages is far different than 1% of a 150-"page" book. I am not looking for absolute accuracy to some rigidly defined standard--I just want to compare different books' lengths and also have some idea of how much I read each day. Page numbers (even "faux" page numbers) are the easiest, most intuitive way I've found to do this.

You’ll read at a fairly consistent rate with only slight variations due to subject matter and outside distractions. Why not use time spent reading as a measure of how much reading you’ve done. It won’t vary with any reasonable change in font size etc, nor in screen size.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

Curious as to why no progress bar, the way Kobo implemented it it is very unlikely that the bar will prohibit you from maximizing text. At least I've not yet found a mixture of settings which will allow the text to come to the very bottom edge of the screen (it comes close, but there's still space enough for the progress bar).

Unless it's just to have a cleaner display of course.

I like the progress bar on my old Kindles. With them you've got little ticks for chapters — so, with a quick look down, you can decide if you have time to finish the chapter or not (at least in theory). They've done a good job of keeping the progress small on the Kobos but (since it's just a line) it's distracting to me (I keep thinking there's something on the screen). I would like it to be a bit more "Kindle-like" — a little more useful, even though it would make it wider.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by tourneur

Pages left in chapter for me.

I prefer not to stop reading mid chapter, so I only start with a chapter if I know I can finish it. So always knowing how many pages there are (left) in the chapter is the only progress info need.

I also happen to like it's displayed in the header now, because a header is more aesthetically pleasing to me than a footer.

That's how I fel (though I prefer footer to header).

I really don't care about book page numbers, percentages or anything else. Seeing I'm on chapter 17 in a book that has 37 chapters is enough for me.

I just want to know what the chapter has, which is why I prefer 'pages' to be the equivalent of one screen.

[icallaci]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

You’ll read at a fairly consistent rate with only slight variations due to subject matter and outside distractions. Why not use time spent reading as a measure of how much reading you’ve done. It won’t vary with any reasonable change in font size etc, nor in screen size.

Time spent reading doesn't work easily for me. I rarely get to read for a specified amount of time, so I would end up trying to calculate a page-count or word-count for each block of time during the day, if I even bothered to track it anymore. Why on earth should I do that when the current system allows me to open a book, see that I am on "page 37 of 650" and at the end of the day that I am on "page 123 of 650"? It's easy, I do it automatically, and I have a general idea of how much reading I did today compared to how much I did yesterday. Since percentages change with every book, it becomes impossible to estimate day-to-day volume except within the same book. I'm not saying this is critical information that would end my life if I couldn't have it, but it's something I've always done. Page numbers are simply much more consistent for my needs/wants. And, as I said, I'm not looking for absolute accuracy, just for a general idea of "how much did I read today?"

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by ratinox

Faux pages don't tell you this. They present a multiple of some count of characters from some arbitrary position. And the accuracy is questionable. For example, faux page 32 in an ebook with only text and faux page 32 in an ebook with 16 full page illustrations up to that point won't line up.

Different books, different numbers. If the book does not contain page number mapping (either page-map or pagelist), what the Adobe epub synthetic page number algorithm offers is that no matter what device you read on, the same epub file will have page 32 will start at the same point. As in one of my daughter's university textbooks where synthetic page 156 was the same on her iPad, a Kobo ereader and ADE on her computer. The professor gave his page references in 3 forms, hardcover edition 6 page numbers, Adobe epub edition 6 page numbers and a search string for other devices. Admittedly, most of his references were more like "Read Chapters 7 to 10 for Monday and be prepared to discuss the content".

As for your example, do you have⁠—at hand⁠—an example of two pbooks where the page numbers in the text only version lined up with the page numbers in the illustrated edition with 16 full page illustrations in the first 32 pages? Preferably two editions with the same font/font size/line and/or paragraph spacing, margins/etc and a page number assigned to each of the full page illustrations.

For those who haven't stopped reading by now, here's the quote from the Adobe EPUB Best Practices ebook (version 1.0, March, 2008):

Synthetic page names

When page map is not available in the document, Adobe Digital Editions will synthesize a page-map based on the document content. The approach used is the following:

• Determine a compressed byte length of each resource which is referenced in the spine, subtracting any known encryption overhead (IV size)
  
• Assume that there is a page for each 1024 bytes in each resource, rounding up to the nearest whole number of pages for each resource
  
• To map page breaks into a resource, use the number of pages for the resource as determined in step 2, count the number of Unicode characters in the resource; distribute synthetic page breaks in the resource evenly between the characters by dividing the number of characters by the number of pages; if the number of characters don’t divide evenly among the pages, round the number of characters per page up and let the last “page” contain less characters than the rest.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

The next, and apparently much more challenging, hurdle for such a system to overcome is the remarkably devout and passionate attachment many have to "page numbers".

It's not so much the devout and passionate attachment to page numbers but the devout and passionate to the point of fanaticism belief that every ebook should match the page numbering in a pbook which results in an equally fanatical discussion of which pbook (hardcover, trade paperback, paperback, whatever other form it was published in) edition is the ONE TRUE SOURCE for page numbers.

I'd rather just read the Dralm-damned book.

[church mouse]

I really like the new options. I use page in chapter and pages in book with no progress bar, added to this is the wonderful miniclock add-on (which I have now positioned bottom right). I have switched from pubs using Koreader (which gave me all these things) to Kepubs on Nickel.