Apple missed the boat with the iPhone?

[JSWolf]

I have a Rio Karma that I really like. Better then an iPod. But if I was to purchase an iPod, I'd get one compatible with the Rockbox firmware upgrade.

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by stustaff

Because businesses want their staff sending photo messages and listening to music on stereo bluetooth headsets?(remember it does have bluetooth and can connect to car stereos headsets for talking.)

None of the things quoted are a missing for a business! imo of course.

Idari and RickyMaveety I agree with you both! but Apple dont make a product for those people! my point is why complain about what you cant do on a device that isnt meant to do that?
My sony phone doesnt have a multitouch screen! my toaster doesnt boil water! my TV isnt HIDEF and I cant alter it myself. I want more memory in my Creative Zen player but it isnt user replacable!

etc etc etc

With apple in particular people complain that the apple cant do this or that... why? why dont they just buy something else then? why post on msg boards etc?

Apple are popular? why? good advertising and good products! but maybe not good for everyone... BUT why dont those people go elswhere? why do they feel the need to state there annoyance so avidly?
Would this thread be so long if it was about the fact that the ASUS eepc cant be overclocked and doesnt have enough USB ports? for example.

And again ... not complaining, just stating why I'm not buying one. And, I AM getting my phones, computers and much of my other equipment from someone other than Apple. As you mentioned ... they are not good for everyone ... they are certainly not good for me. This thread is long because a lot of the people who purchase Apple products think they are the end all and be all of electronics. Those of us who do not find them particularly compelling find ourselves in the strange position of being told we are "complaining" about their shortcomings.

A complaint sort of presupposes that you are being forced to use something that you do not want to use. I don't want to use an iPhone ... no one has a gun to my head to make me use an iPhone ... an iPhone does not have the features that would turn me into a user. It's not likely that Apple will produce many products that would turn me into a user. They are looking for a different sort of consumer that is not me. They apparently do not want my money ... so ... I do go elsewhere. Very happy with the phone I've got. It does to everything I want my phone to do ... and they are in that list of things lacking in the iPhone.

[daffy4u]

I haven't looked into the Rio Karma (didn't know about it). I'll check it out. Thanks for the tip.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by stustaff

BUT why dont those people go elswhere? why do they feel the need to state there annoyance so avidly?

Would this thread be so long if it was about the fact that the ASUS eepc cant be overclocked and doesnt have enough USB ports? for example.

<shrug>

Apple has made itself a target, not that I think it cares. There's a perception among some that Apple users are mindless members of the Cult of Apple, who will happily buy whatever Steve Jobs chooses to release, and that the iPod and iPhone are more fashion statement than device, which people buy because they are "cool".

On the plus side, I give Apple points for demonstrating that good product design sells. Apple devices look good as well as work well. Prioduct design is an art that is often overlooked. Given the choice between two equivalent products, all other things being equal, I'll pick the one I feel is better designed.

I also give them points on UI design. Apple placed itself as a maker of products that were easier to use than competing models, and puts a lot of thought into creating user interfaces that are largely intuitive and do the expected thing.

On the minus side, the architectures tend to be proprietary, meaning that parts for an Apple computer will cost more than equivalent parts for a PC, and Apple devices tend to be more expensive to begin with. They also tend to be more limited in options for upgrading.

With computers, I draw an analogy to automobiles. You can own and drive a car without being a mechanic or understanding the principles of operation of the four stroke internal combustion engine. With personal computers, you often do need to be a mechanic with a working knowledge of of how the device operates to get the desired performance.

This situation has been steadily improving, but isn't where people might wish it to be. Apple is arguably farther along toward that goal than the others, but that lead has been diminished.

Meanwhile, I think Apple makes good products and serves a particular segment of the market very well.

But I don't use devices because they are cool: they are cool because I use them. And I am a mechanic who wants to poke around under the hood. So I'm not part of the market Apple is aiming at, and unlikely to buy one of their products.
______
Dennis

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

<shrug>

Apple has made itself a target, not that I think it cares. There's a perception among some that Apple users are mindless members of the Cult of Apple, who will happily buy whatever Steve Jobs chooses to release, and that the iPod and iPhone are more fashion statement than device, which people buy because they are "cool".

On the plus side, I give Apple points for demonstrating that good product design sells. Apple devices look good as well as work well. Prioduct design is an art that is often overlooked. Given the choice between two equivalent products, all other things being equal, I'll pick the one I feel is better designed.

I also give them points on UI design. Apple placed itself as a maker of products that were easier to use than competing models, and puts a lot of thought into creating user interfaces that are largely intuitive and do the expected thing.

On the minus side, the architectures tend to be proprietary, meaning that parts for an Apple computer will cost more than equivalent parts for a PC, and Apple devices tend to be more expensive to begin with. They also tend to be more limited in options for upgrading.

With computers, I draw an analogy to automobiles. You can own and drive a car without being a mechanic or understanding the principles of operation of the four stroke internal combustion engine. With personal computers, you often do need to be a mechanic with a working knowledge of of how the device operates to get the desired performance.

This situation has been steadily improving, but isn't where people might wish it to be. Apple is arguably farther along toward that goal than the others, but that lead has been diminished.

Meanwhile, I think Apple makes good products and serves a particular segment of the market very well.

But I don't use devices because they are cool: they are cool because I use them. And I am a mechanic who wants to poke around under the hood. So I'm not part of the market Apple is aiming at, and unlikely to buy one of their products.______
Dennis

Exactly!! Same here, and well said.

[bwaldron]

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

And again ... not complaining, just stating why I'm not buying one. And, I AM getting my phones, computers and much of my other equipment from someone other than Apple. As you mentioned ... they are not good for everyone ... they are certainly not good for me.

Nor for me. And I'm not complaining, either.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by stustaff

Harry why bring the iphone up to talkk about? arent their other phones that dont have features like video conferencing or mms? of course their are! but the only one your talking about repeatedly is the iphone.

Why?

Because it's the device that there's all the hype about at the moment. Don't get me wrong - I like the iPhone a lot; I'm just disappointed that they seem to have omitted some features which personally I'd regard as rather rudimentary for any modern "smart" phone. As you see from my profile, I have an iPod Touch, which I regard as an excellent device; I'm certainly no "Apple hater".

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Because it's the device that there's all the hype about at the moment. Don't get me wrong - I like the iPhone a lot; I'm just disappointed that they seem to have omitted some features which personally I'd regard as rather rudimentary for any modern "smart" phone. As you see from my profile, I have an iPod Touch, which I regard as an excellent device; I'm certainly no "Apple hater".

I think thats fair enough your motivation seems to be that your dissapointed because Apples phone isnt suitable for you so your missing out?
It seems apple believe they know best and actually stick to that. are they always right, of course not.

I didnt get an ipod for years because they dont have an FM radio! how big a feature is that in a portable audio device.

Finnally got one because well they looked good and everyone else had one, but then really liked it started downloading podcasts and music and realised I never missed the radio.

[mores]

I rarely send MMS, since they are freakin' expensive, and I believe videocalls were a stillbirth, so those features are actually not "missing" rather than "optimized away" in my book.

MMS would be neat, if it would allow one to send larger images. But most people I know have phones with 100x100 pixel screens, the effort is useless.
So if you have a large screen, and your friend has a large screen, the chances are better that they read email on their large screens, so send them a proper email instead of puny stamp-sized pixelgarbage.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Because it's the device that there's all the hype about at the moment. Don't get me wrong - I like the iPhone a lot; I'm just disappointed that they seem to have omitted some features which personally I'd regard as rather rudimentary for any modern "smart" phone. As you see from my profile, I have an iPod Touch, which I regard as an excellent device; I'm certainly no "Apple hater".

I'm more curious as to why you think some of your missing features are a "must have" for a device aimed at the corporate market. For example, I can't imagine trying to do video conferencing from a smartphone. If I have to do that, I am almost certainly in the office at a suitable equipped desktop or laptop.
______
Dennis

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I'm more curious as to why you think some of your missing features are a "must have" for a device aimed at the corporate market. For example, I can't imagine trying to do video conferencing from a smartphone. If I have to do that, I am almost certainly in the office at a suitable equipped desktop or laptop.
______
Dennis

In particular in the USA many companies are very security conscious and won't allow phones in the front door that can take pictures. Video conferencing works best with laptops that also include features like the ability to share a white board electronically.

Dale

[nekokami]

Oddly enough, I have... let me see... four Macs in the house, two of which I own, one of which I used to own (gave it to my oldest daughter), and one of which belongs to my employer... and I don't own any iPods, iPhones, etc. (The kids have iPods they received as gifts from others.) I like OSX. (I like *nix in general, and I like the interface Apple has built on top of BSD, at least for the most part. Don't get me started about them not using X-Windows.) I'm not crazy about the closed-box hardware, but three of the units I mentioned are laptops and those are typically hard to get into anyway. I have a dual-boot Ubuntu/XP machine I use when I want to play with hardware.

Oh, and I have an extremely cheap mobile phone that uses prepaid cards and I rarely use it-- I carry it for emergency purposes only.

Despite all this, I think the iPhone is worth talking about here, because a bunch of people will buy them and now that ebooks are available for them, a bunch of people will read books on them. This can only be good overall for the ebook market.

All that being said, I can't imagine using a mobile phone for videoconferencing. I have a hard enough time getting a good audio signal.

[montsnmags]

I would have bought an iPhone except I realised that my basic, coin-pocket, candybar Nokia sits on my bedside for months at a time. I realised that what I wanted was an iPhone with more onboard memory and without a phone, camera, or its ability to be "always online". Fortunately, they make one, and I got it for my birthday (the iPod Touch 32Gb). I love its interface (positively dreamy), I love its form factor, I love its apps, I love that that there will be more apps, I love that it holds every bit of my music ("Ca plane pour moi...."), and I love that I will possibly (eventually? now?) be able to keep all my books on it as well (via Stanza?). It's my little notebook, reference guide, reminder pad, music player, emergency book, "wallet" photos, glass of beer, that I can always keep in my pocket, without having to be "always available" to friends and family.

It's a nifty little thing. I've even composed (bad) poetry (cinquains) in its Notes section during "waiting" moments.

Cheers,
Marc

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by montsnmags

I would have bought an iPhone except I realised that my basic, coin-pocket, candybar Nokia sits on my bedside for months at a time. I realised that what I wanted was an iPhone with more onboard memory and without a phone, camera, or its ability to be "always online". Fortunately, they make one, and I got it for my birthday (the iPod Touch 32Gb). I love its interface (positively dreamy), I love its form factor, I love its apps, I love that that there will be more apps, I love that it holds every bit of my music ("Ca plane pour moi...."), and I love that I will possibly (eventually? now?) be able to keep all my books on it as well (via Stanza?).

I wish I could fit all of my music and books into 32GB...

It's my little notebook, reference guide, reminder pad, music player, emergency book, "wallet" photos, glass of beer, that I can always keep in my pocket, without having to be "always available" to friends and family.

That's how I feel about my PDA, and why I'm not in the market for a dedicated reader. My device does that [i] and a lot of other things. I can live with the smaller backlit screen in exchange for the multiple functions.
______
Dennis

[montsnmags]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I wish I could fit all of my music and books into 32GB...

My ebooks, thus far, still all fit inside the internal memory of an Iliad. Most of it is public domain "Classics" (from MR, of course), and there's likely enough there to last me the rest of my lifetime. If I was looking at pdfs or books with pictures, of course, things might be a lot different. As for music, well, for me, it's "portable" music - I'm not after the ultimate in quality. To be honest, while I enjoy music from a good system setup, if it's good music I could enjoy it from an old transistor radio (our minds are pretty fantabulous at filling in the gaps in our senses).

Saying all this, I'm making assumptions. If I looked at it more personally (ie. at yourself, Dennis), it would not surprise me in the least if you used the same "compression" and types of texts/music, but just had absolute shed-loads more of the stuff than I do.

That's how I feel about my PDA, and why I'm not in the market for a dedicated reader. My device does that [i] and a lot of other things. I can live with the smaller backlit screen in exchange for the multiple functions.
______
Dennis

I was tempted by a Palm TX prior to the Iliad. I'm glad I was tempted by the Iliad - the Iliad is perfect for my everyday use (which is basically nightly and visits to my brother's place some weekends), and the iPod Touch (with the expanding number of apps) is now the kind of thing that can be my "go-everywhere". It's currently got my shopping list on it (we need milk, mixed leaf lettuce, and bread, and I'm just about out the door), and I'm just waiting for a nice app to come out for "meter-free" camera exposure estimating (I've a couple all-manual cameras without or with broken meters)...and a sunrise/sunset app would be nice (incl. direction)...and a hyperfocal/DoF calculator...and...

Cheers,
Marc